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Topic:  RE: NIU appears gone . . .

Topic:  RE: NIU appears gone . . .
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: NIU appears gone . . .
   Posted: 1/8/2025 1:21:28 PM 
Marshall makes some sense, but the Sun Belt has leapfrogged the MAC and don't see them switching.

The logical conference to look at would be schools in the Colonial that want to move "up" in football. With UMass, the footprint's moved east, and you could look at folks like Delaware, Rhode Island, New Hampshire, Albany, etc.
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: NIU appears gone . . .
   Posted: 1/8/2025 2:08:48 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Marshall makes some sense, but the Sun Belt has leapfrogged the MAC and don't see them switching.

The logical conference to look at would be schools in the Colonial that want to move "up" in football. With UMass, the footprint's moved east, and you could look at folks like Delaware, Rhode Island, New Hampshire, Albany, etc.


CUSA kind of fleeced the MAC grabbing Delaware first. I hope they enjoy those trips to Texas and New Mexico. Holy Cross, Rhode Island and Albany seem to be the most ready to make a jump, but who knows what the temperature is at those schools. I don't like the idea of football only, but make a deal with UConn that promises some basketball games on the side.

Marshall isn't going anywhere as they have more in common with the Sun Belt schools than they do the MAC, which I'm sure will annoy people here, but it's true. The MAC screwed this all up originally trying to get WKU/MTSU when WKU/Marshall was the move.
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VilleCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: NIU appears gone . . .
   Posted: 1/8/2025 3:17:56 PM 
Damn, didn't realize that about Delaware, they would have paired well with Rhode Island and New Hampshire to go along with UCONN. Would Villanova consider moving up?
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M.D.W.S.T
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  Message Not Read  RE: NIU appears gone . . .
   Posted: 1/8/2025 4:20:53 PM 
VilleCat wrote:
Damn, didn't realize that about Delaware, they would have paired well with Rhode Island and New Hampshire to go along with UCONN. Would Villanova consider moving up?


Not likely. Certainly not into the MAC, if they did. They're a small, prestigious private school. Probably not eager to line-up next to Akron.

And it sounds like their feasibility study in 2011 didn't go well.

"Following the 2009 NCAA championship season, Villanova considered moving into FBS and joining the Big East Conference (Now AAC) in football. Villanova Stadium located on-campus stadium seats only 12,500, less than the 15,000 requirement for an FBS-eligible team. In September 2010, the Big East informally discussed the possibility that Villanova might become a football member. The school undertook a feasibility study involving the costs involved with such an upgrade. An upgrade of the football program would require building new football facilities and corresponding increases to its women's sports program due to Title IX issues, as well as a move to a larger game venue. Prior to the scheduled April 12, 2011, Board of Trustees vote on the football upgrade, several Big East football schools objected to the Villanova plans. With the ongoing uncertainty, the Villanova Board of Trustees has never voted regarding the topic of moving to FBS."

I think Youngstown State is still the most feasible and makes the most sense if we need to add another program, both basketball and football wise. Other than coming up with the cash to join FBS, travel costs would be low, they're a successful program. Facilities are already good.

Eastern Kentucky as well, though I wouldn't take them without Western.

Last Edited: 1/8/2025 4:30:27 PM by M.D.W.S.T

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: NIU appears gone . . .
   Posted: 1/8/2025 4:47:01 PM 
Yeah, Villanova's a no-go. Anybody who is elite in bball isn't coming along.

Ultimately, we need to be targeting mid-tier public schools. URI, New Hampshire, Towson, Stony Brook, Towson, Albany, Youngstown, Indiana State, Illinois State, Northern Iowa, etc.

For the record, still not super clear to me that there's going to be an "up" for FCS schools to move up to in 5 years. A lot less revenue if the top 40 schools break away. But who knows.
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: NIU appears gone . . .
   Posted: 1/8/2025 5:52:42 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Yeah, Villanova's a no-go. Anybody who is elite in bball isn't coming along.

Ultimately, we need to be targeting mid-tier public schools. URI, New Hampshire, Towson, Stony Brook, Towson, Albany, Youngstown, Indiana State, Illinois State, Northern Iowa, etc.

For the record, still not super clear to me that there's going to be an "up" for FCS schools to move up to in 5 years. A lot less revenue if the top 40 schools break away. But who knows.


Curious why you'd only want to target public schools? Is it because the MAC has always had public schools and it's a more peer-like institution? I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but it would be a little short-sighted to not at least have a conversation with a private school.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: NIU appears gone . . .
   Posted: 1/8/2025 6:16:28 PM 
GoCats105 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Yeah, Villanova's a no-go. Anybody who is elite in bball isn't coming along.

Ultimately, we need to be targeting mid-tier public schools. URI, New Hampshire, Towson, Stony Brook, Towson, Albany, Youngstown, Indiana State, Illinois State, Northern Iowa, etc.

For the record, still not super clear to me that there's going to be an "up" for FCS schools to move up to in 5 years. A lot less revenue if the top 40 schools break away. But who knows.


Curious why you'd only want to target public schools? Is it because the MAC has always had public schools and it's a more peer-like institution? I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but it would be a little short-sighted to not at least have a conversation with a private school.


Just being realistic about who our peers are and who fits from a budget standpoint.
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M.D.W.S.T
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  Message Not Read  RE: NIU appears gone . . .
   Posted: 1/9/2025 9:33:17 AM 
GoCats105 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Yeah, Villanova's a no-go. Anybody who is elite in bball isn't coming along.

Ultimately, we need to be targeting mid-tier public schools. URI, New Hampshire, Towson, Stony Brook, Towson, Albany, Youngstown, Indiana State, Illinois State, Northern Iowa, etc.

For the record, still not super clear to me that there's going to be an "up" for FCS schools to move up to in 5 years. A lot less revenue if the top 40 schools break away. But who knows.


Curious why you'd only want to target public schools? Is it because the MAC has always had public schools and it's a more peer-like institution? I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but it would be a little short-sighted to not at least have a conversation with a private school.


Who do you have in mind?

Prestigious private schools aren't likely to jump into G5 football unless it's some sort of financial windfall. And that doesn't appear to be in the cards for much of anyone in the G5, let alone the MAC.

Hypothetically, Dayton would likely be the only feasible option - and it would be football only. They're a basketball school. And a damn good one. It's unlikely they would shift resources into football.
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: NIU appears gone . . .
   Posted: 1/9/2025 11:04:49 AM 
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Yeah, Villanova's a no-go. Anybody who is elite in bball isn't coming along.

Ultimately, we need to be targeting mid-tier public schools. URI, New Hampshire, Towson, Stony Brook, Towson, Albany, Youngstown, Indiana State, Illinois State, Northern Iowa, etc.

For the record, still not super clear to me that there's going to be an "up" for FCS schools to move up to in 5 years. A lot less revenue if the top 40 schools break away. But who knows.


Curious why you'd only want to target public schools? Is it because the MAC has always had public schools and it's a more peer-like institution? I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but it would be a little short-sighted to not at least have a conversation with a private school.


Who do you have in mind?

Prestigious private schools aren't likely to jump into G5 football unless it's some sort of financial windfall. And that doesn't appear to be in the cards for much of anyone in the G5, let alone the MAC.

Hypothetically, Dayton would likely be the only feasible option - and it would be football only. They're a basketball school. And a damn good one. It's unlikely they would shift resources into football.


The only one that really makes sense that I've thought of is Holy Cross. They'd make a great travel partner for UMass, have a 23,500 capacity stadium and just recently opened a $95M athletic facility that includes an indoor practice field. I have no idea if they have any intentions of moving up, but the football program was a rising star under Bob Chesney before he moved on to JMU.
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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: NIU appears gone . . .
   Posted: 1/9/2025 12:50:16 PM 
I'm all for Youngstown St, lean into the Ohio core.


Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: NIU appears gone . . .
   Posted: 1/9/2025 1:30:52 PM 
A hypothetical question. If NIU does not beat Notre Dame and instead loses by 40 something this year...do they still get the MWC invite?


Andrew Ruck
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M.D.W.S.T
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  Message Not Read  RE: NIU appears gone . . .
   Posted: 1/9/2025 1:36:01 PM 
Andrew Ruck wrote:
I'm all for Youngstown St, lean into the Ohio core.


They're likely the only team we could add that wouldn't be a bottom dweller across the board. Often we're looking for who we can add to one sport, YSU we could take the whole university and - maybe just to me - I think thats valuable and important.

They would be a big addition in basketball, depending on how you view adding competition. They're certainly a Top 4-5 team right now, beat Toledo earlier this year, beat us the year before, likely they're one of the top teams right now.

Football has had some recent down years, but they did just put a starting RB into the NFL. They have good enough facilities, and are D1 in other programs. They have a fun history of success (I have a 90's national champions shirt I love wearing around Columbus). You got Tressel who still reps them hard. I often wonder why he didn't push for them to join the FBS... likely money is the issue. He spent a lot of good years trying to rebuild that campus, and its programs. I don't know if their situation has changed, but I think Youngstown is one of the very few that isn't just a pipedream, but could be a fairly easy transition reality. And wouldn't take any real extra work to accomplish.

Throw in baseball. They beat Akron a couple times last season. The womens basketball team won the conference last year or the year before.

Do I work in outreach for YSU? I think I should.
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Bobcat Love
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  Message Not Read  RE: NIU appears gone . . .
   Posted: 1/10/2025 10:06:28 AM 
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
Andrew Ruck wrote:
I'm all for Youngstown St, lean into the Ohio core.


They're likely the only team we could add that wouldn't be a bottom dweller across the board. Often we're looking for who we can add to one sport, YSU we could take the whole university and - maybe just to me - I think thats valuable and important.

They would be a big addition in basketball, depending on how you view adding competition. They're certainly a Top 4-5 team right now, beat Toledo earlier this year, beat us the year before, likely they're one of the top teams right now.

Football has had some recent down years, but they did just put a starting RB into the NFL. They have good enough facilities, and are D1 in other programs. They have a fun history of success (I have a 90's national champions shirt I love wearing around Columbus). You got Tressel who still reps them hard. I often wonder why he didn't push for them to join the FBS... likely money is the issue. He spent a lot of good years trying to rebuild that campus, and its programs. I don't know if their situation has changed, but I think Youngstown is one of the very few that isn't just a pipedream, but could be a fairly easy transition reality. And wouldn't take any real extra work to accomplish.

Throw in baseball. They beat Akron a couple times last season. The womens basketball team won the conference last year or the year before.

Do I work in outreach for YSU? I think I should.


We really have no standards here. I told my kids - run from Ohio U. Don't walk. Run.
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M.D.W.S.T
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  Message Not Read  RE: NIU appears gone . . .
   Posted: 1/10/2025 10:37:32 AM 
Bobcat Love wrote:
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
Andrew Ruck wrote:
I'm all for Youngstown St, lean into the Ohio core.


They're likely the only team we could add that wouldn't be a bottom dweller across the board. Often we're looking for who we can add to one sport, YSU we could take the whole university and - maybe just to me - I think thats valuable and important.

They would be a big addition in basketball, depending on how you view adding competition. They're certainly a Top 4-5 team right now, beat Toledo earlier this year, beat us the year before, likely they're one of the top teams right now.

Football has had some recent down years, but they did just put a starting RB into the NFL. They have good enough facilities, and are D1 in other programs. They have a fun history of success (I have a 90's national champions shirt I love wearing around Columbus). You got Tressel who still reps them hard. I often wonder why he didn't push for them to join the FBS... likely money is the issue. He spent a lot of good years trying to rebuild that campus, and its programs. I don't know if their situation has changed, but I think Youngstown is one of the very few that isn't just a pipedream, but could be a fairly easy transition reality. And wouldn't take any real extra work to accomplish.

Throw in baseball. They beat Akron a couple times last season. The womens basketball team won the conference last year or the year before.

Do I work in outreach for YSU? I think I should.


We really have no standards here. I told my kids - run from Ohio U. Don't walk. Run.


I know. We should hold Duke's feet to the fire. COME TO THE MAC OR PERISH. BREACH OF FUDICIARY DUTY.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: NIU appears gone . . .
   Posted: 1/10/2025 11:09:38 AM 
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
Prestigious private schools aren't likely to jump into G5 football unless it's some sort of financial windfall. And that doesn't appear to be in the cards for much of anyone in the G5, let alone the MAC..


You are apparently forgetting about WMU's recent windfall -- largest gift to a public university in U.S. history -- $550 million, with $50 million designated for athletics.


The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

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M.D.W.S.T
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  Message Not Read  RE: NIU appears gone . . .
   Posted: 1/10/2025 12:59:52 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
Prestigious private schools aren't likely to jump into G5 football unless it's some sort of financial windfall. And that doesn't appear to be in the cards for much of anyone in the G5, let alone the MAC..


You are apparently forgetting about WMU's recent windfall -- largest gift to a public university in U.S. history -- $550 million, with $50 million designated for athletics.


Did they just join FBS? Was this gift because they won some football games? How is the incredible anomaly of 1 school receiving a large donation relevant?
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Bobcat Love
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  Message Not Read  RE: NIU appears gone . . .
   Posted: 1/10/2025 12:59:56 PM 
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
Bobcat Love wrote:
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
Andrew Ruck wrote:
I'm all for Youngstown St, lean into the Ohio core.


They're likely the only team we could add that wouldn't be a bottom dweller across the board. Often we're looking for who we can add to one sport, YSU we could take the whole university and - maybe just to me - I think thats valuable and important.

They would be a big addition in basketball, depending on how you view adding competition. They're certainly a Top 4-5 team right now, beat Toledo earlier this year, beat us the year before, likely they're one of the top teams right now.

Football has had some recent down years, but they did just put a starting RB into the NFL. They have good enough facilities, and are D1 in other programs. They have a fun history of success (I have a 90's national champions shirt I love wearing around Columbus). You got Tressel who still reps them hard. I often wonder why he didn't push for them to join the FBS... likely money is the issue. He spent a lot of good years trying to rebuild that campus, and its programs. I don't know if their situation has changed, but I think Youngstown is one of the very few that isn't just a pipedream, but could be a fairly easy transition reality. And wouldn't take any real extra work to accomplish.

Throw in baseball. They beat Akron a couple times last season. The womens basketball team won the conference last year or the year before.

Do I work in outreach for YSU? I think I should.


We really have no standards here. I told my kids - run from Ohio U. Don't walk. Run.


I know. We should hold Duke's feet to the fire. COME TO THE MAC OR PERISH. BREACH OF FUDICIARY DUTY.


We hire Presidential Candidates from Texas Tech, Marshall, New Mexico State, Ball State, or South Dakota and we are on our knees to get (checking again) Youngstown State to join the MAC? Our AD is sweating while she waits by the phone for a 479 area code to call. Honestly, give me a U of Phoenix degree at this point and I'll consider myself coming out ahead. Pathetic beyond belief.
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M.D.W.S.T
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  Message Not Read  RE: NIU appears gone . . .
   Posted: 1/10/2025 1:17:04 PM 
Bobcat Love wrote:
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
Bobcat Love wrote:
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
Andrew Ruck wrote:
I'm all for Youngstown St, lean into the Ohio core.


They're likely the only team we could add that wouldn't be a bottom dweller across the board. Often we're looking for who we can add to one sport, YSU we could take the whole university and - maybe just to me - I think thats valuable and important.

They would be a big addition in basketball, depending on how you view adding competition. They're certainly a Top 4-5 team right now, beat Toledo earlier this year, beat us the year before, likely they're one of the top teams right now.

Football has had some recent down years, but they did just put a starting RB into the NFL. They have good enough facilities, and are D1 in other programs. They have a fun history of success (I have a 90's national champions shirt I love wearing around Columbus). You got Tressel who still reps them hard. I often wonder why he didn't push for them to join the FBS... likely money is the issue. He spent a lot of good years trying to rebuild that campus, and its programs. I don't know if their situation has changed, but I think Youngstown is one of the very few that isn't just a pipedream, but could be a fairly easy transition reality. And wouldn't take any real extra work to accomplish.

Throw in baseball. They beat Akron a couple times last season. The womens basketball team won the conference last year or the year before.

Do I work in outreach for YSU? I think I should.


We really have no standards here. I told my kids - run from Ohio U. Don't walk. Run.


I know. We should hold Duke's feet to the fire. COME TO THE MAC OR PERISH. BREACH OF FUDICIARY DUTY.


We hire Presidential Candidates from Texas Tech, Marshall, New Mexico State, Ball State, or South Dakota and we are on our knees to get (checking again) Youngstown State to join the MAC? Our AD is sweating while she waits by the phone for a 479 area code to call. Honestly, give me a U of Phoenix degree at this point and I'll consider myself coming out ahead. Pathetic beyond belief.


I agree. Pathetic beyond belief. That you not only think these things, but type them out. No one is as consistently wrong about so much, so confidently as you. No one says so much without saying anything at all. Honestly, its impressive. It's damn near a super power.
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Bobcat Love
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  Message Not Read  RE: NIU appears gone . . .
   Posted: 1/10/2025 5:05:01 PM 
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
Bobcat Love wrote:
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
Bobcat Love wrote:
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
Andrew Ruck wrote:
I'm all for Youngstown St, lean into the Ohio core.


They're likely the only team we could add that wouldn't be a bottom dweller across the board. Often we're looking for who we can add to one sport, YSU we could take the whole university and - maybe just to me - I think thats valuable and important.

They would be a big addition in basketball, depending on how you view adding competition. They're certainly a Top 4-5 team right now, beat Toledo earlier this year, beat us the year before, likely they're one of the top teams right now.

Football has had some recent down years, but they did just put a starting RB into the NFL. They have good enough facilities, and are D1 in other programs. They have a fun history of success (I have a 90's national champions shirt I love wearing around Columbus). You got Tressel who still reps them hard. I often wonder why he didn't push for them to join the FBS... likely money is the issue. He spent a lot of good years trying to rebuild that campus, and its programs. I don't know if their situation has changed, but I think Youngstown is one of the very few that isn't just a pipedream, but could be a fairly easy transition reality. And wouldn't take any real extra work to accomplish.

Throw in baseball. They beat Akron a couple times last season. The womens basketball team won the conference last year or the year before.

Do I work in outreach for YSU? I think I should.


We really have no standards here. I told my kids - run from Ohio U. Don't walk. Run.


I know. We should hold Duke's feet to the fire. COME TO THE MAC OR PERISH. BREACH OF FUDICIARY DUTY.


We hire Presidential Candidates from Texas Tech, Marshall, New Mexico State, Ball State, or South Dakota and we are on our knees to get (checking again) Youngstown State to join the MAC? Our AD is sweating while she waits by the phone for a 479 area code to call. Honestly, give me a U of Phoenix degree at this point and I'll consider myself coming out ahead. Pathetic beyond belief.


I agree. Pathetic beyond belief. That you not only think these things, but type them out. No one is as consistently wrong about so much, so confidently as you. No one says so much without saying anything at all. Honestly, its impressive. It's damn near a super power.


*recyles “yeah, Duke is waiting for our call” line that isn’t funny, intriguing, or intelligent.

Get some new material, loser.
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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: NIU appears gone . . .
   Posted: 1/10/2025 5:50:59 PM 
Youngstown State fits within the existing MAC well. If you want to view that as an indictment on the MAC, fine. And if you want to believe Ohio is above the MAC, fine. But if we aren't getting the big conference invite you think we should, and the MAC is looking for a new member, YSU seems quite feasible.


Andrew Ruck
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: NIU appears gone . . .
   Posted: 1/11/2025 11:24:26 AM 
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
Prestigious private schools aren't likely to jump into G5 football unless it's some sort of financial windfall. And that doesn't appear to be in the cards for much of anyone in the G5, let alone the MAC..


You are apparently forgetting about WMU's recent windfall -- largest gift to a public university in U.S. history -- $550 million, with $50 million designated for athletics.


Did they just join FBS? Was this gift because they won some football games? How is the incredible anomaly of 1 school receiving a large donation relevant?


It's relevant because I thought you were implying that no school in the MAC could get a windfall. Well, if WMU can, why not Ohio? BL rants about Julie and her fiduciary failings, I wonder whether a rant isn't more appropriately directed toward the development office.

For the record, the WMU gift came from a husband and wife team who are both graduates of the WMU medical school. Frankly, I didn't know that WMU had a medical school until I read the stories about this donation. The majority of the donation not surprisingly goes to their medical school, but some other departments got big chunks, too, including athletics. I suspect that one or both of the donors probably got their undergraduate degree from WMU, as well as their MD degree, which would explain their affinity for WMU athletics.


The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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cbarber357
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  Message Not Read  RE: NIU appears gone . . .
   Posted: 1/11/2025 11:45:45 AM 
I think we should reach out to UConn for football/some other sports along with a deal that the men’s and women’s basketball teams agree to play 3 MAC opponents a year, 1 being on the road. I would take that deal in a heartbeat.
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TWT
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  Message Not Read  RE: NIU appears gone . . .
   Posted: 1/11/2025 12:00:08 PM 
Andrew Ruck wrote:
Youngstown State fits within the existing MAC well. If you want to view that as an indictment on the MAC, fine. And if you want to believe Ohio is above the MAC, fine. But if we aren't getting the big conference invite you think we should, and the MAC is looking for a new member, YSU seems quite feasible.


The MAC was considering YSU as a 14th when they brought in Marshall. They should have looked at WKU then but didn't for whatever reason.

Youngstown only has 8,500 undergraduates and it would be smallest in the MAC. They don't open the MAC to any new states. If located in Pennsylvannia they would bring something to the MAC but not as a 7th Ohio school.


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TWT
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  Message Not Read  RE: NIU appears gone . . .
   Posted: 1/11/2025 12:04:00 PM 
cbarber357 wrote:
I think we should reach out to UConn for football/some other sports along with a deal that the men’s and women’s basketball teams agree to play 3 MAC opponents a year, 1 being on the road. I would take that deal in a heartbeat.


As a 13th member? Who would be the 14th though? UConn was close to having the votes to joining the Big 12 last year and on the ACC shortlist so I don't think they'll bother with the MAC at this point.


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cbarber357
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  Message Not Read  RE: NIU appears gone . . .
   Posted: 1/11/2025 3:28:23 PM 
TWT wrote:
cbarber357 wrote:
I think we should reach out to UConn for football/some other sports along with a deal that the men’s and women’s basketball teams agree to play 3 MAC opponents a year, 1 being on the road. I would take that deal in a heartbeat.


As a 13th member? Who would be the 14th though? UConn was close to having the votes to joining the Big 12 last year and on the ACC shortlist so I don't think they'll bother with the MAC at this point.


In this scenario I’m imagining that they don’t want to leave the Big East in basketball. The ACC could always implode if Clemson/Miami/FSU leave too.
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