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Topic: RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Topic: RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

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cc-cat
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 11/14/2017 10:32:37 AM

OhioCatFan wrote:

Neither of us will probably live long enough to know how history will assess these protests, but I suspect they will be judged harshly.

Most kneelers are nameless. However Kaepernick will be viewed along the lines of Tommie Smith and John Carlos.

For what is is worth - Panthers sold out again last night 151 and counting.

Last Edited: 11/14/2017 10:32:55 AM by cc-cat

BillyTheCat
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 11/14/2017 12:29:48 PM

cc-cat wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

Neither of us will probably live long enough to know how history will assess these protests, but I suspect they will be judged harshly.

Most kneelers are nameless. However Kaepernick will be viewed along the lines of Tommie Smith and John Carlos.

For what is is worth - Panthers sold out again last night 151 and counting.

cc - I agree with you 110%.

Alan Swank
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 11/14/2017 3:27:33 PM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

finnOhio wrote:

L.C. wrote:

This still seems to be unfolding as I expected. The number of people boycotting the NFL continues to grow, particularly this Veteran's Day weekend. I have a hard time believing that their revenue model isn't seriously effected, and I stronly believe that we will see a major adjustment in player salaries come time to sign free agents and draftees next year, and I expect the adjustment to be permanent, since I don't think viewership will ever recover, what with other issues out there like CTE. I'm not saying that pro football is dead, just that it will never again be what it once was.

https://sports.yahoo.com/despite-threat-boycott-attendanc...

According to this article, the league's attendance was up this weekend.

What I notice as a one-time fan who would now say that he casually watches is that the quality of play is abysmal and the games are too slow to keep me overly interested. If you just look at QB play now, who's elite? Brees, Brady, Wentz...and who else? Alex Smith has looked pretty good this year, Matt Ryan is pretty good, but most others are middling. It's hard to get too fired up about a league that has Kizer, Beathard, Taylor, Fitzpatrick, Brissett, Hundley, and Savage starting at QB. This league has a star problem, quite the opposite of where the NBA is right now (and, I think where baseball is getting now as well).

I think the NFL's basically just facing a perfect storm of factors that have led to a decline in ratings.

In addition to the folks all upset about the protests, there's a segment of people who can no longer stomach the health risks. Add to that your point -- that the product's as bad as it's been in a long time -- and the fact that fantasy sports participation has leveled off and that's an awful lot of regular viewers who just aren't paying the close attention anymore.

Don't forget all of the people who are now spending Sunday afternoons raking leaves.

DelBobcat
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 12/6/2017 2:35:16 PM

Kaepernick recieved SI's Muhammed Ali legacy award last night. GQ named him their Citizen of the Year. Continue to tell me that history will not view his actions positively.

A good take from Paul Daugherty at the Cincy Enquirer:

"COLIN KAEPERNICK has given away close to $1 mil, says Sports Illustrated. That�s good. Better is, he has sought zero publicity for it. Like him or loathe him, Kaepernick is living by his conscience. He�s helping people who need it. That�s never a bad thing.

I would bet that in 10 years, when all the Anthem rhetoric has disappeared, we will revise the history of Kaepernick, and see his efforts in a better light."

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/blogs/daugherty-b... /

BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012

rpbobcat
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 12/7/2017 7:33:05 AM

DelBobcat wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 12/7/2017 8:30:47 AM

rpbobcat wrote:

DelBobcat wrote:

It's really odd to simultaneously buy into Trump's culture war nonsense around Kaepernick and insist he's insignificant. He's either a threat to the future of the NFL or he's insignificant and won't be remembered. I'm not sure how it is that so many people think he's both of those things.

rpbobcat
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 12/7/2017 8:47:50 AM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

First off,I never used the word insignificant.

I also don't remember him being called a "threat to the future of the NFL".

There is no question that,in the short term,his actions have not had a positive affect on the NFL's bottom line.

I don't know if you were around for the 68 Olympics.
At that time there was similar outrage about the actions of Smith and Carlos.
Today,as I said,the average person wouldn't even know who they are.

Personally,I think it will be the same for Kaepernick,especially since,by no longer being in the NFL,he loses his weekly public platform.

Only time will tell.

Last Edited: 12/7/2017 8:55:21 AM by rpbobcat

DelBobcat
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 12/7/2017 9:00:03 AM

rpbobcat wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

rpbobcat wrote:

1. I never said he was MLK or Rosa Parks. Actually, earlier in the thread I specifically said his actions will be viewed favorably, but that's not to say he is as significant as those figures.

2. There IS a question about his effect on the NFL in the short term. Ratings have been down and attendance has been down long before he started his protest. There are many reasons why the NFL is losing viewers, including over-saturation, a growing concern about CTE and other long-term effects, and a proliferation of entertainment options. It's impossible to suss out what effect each variable is having. Further complicating the narrative is the fact that ALL major sports are seeing the same issues and the NFL is still a juggernaut and far and away the most popular sport in America.

3. Most people may not know Smith and Carlos by name but they certainly are aware of their actions at the 68 Olympics. Those actions have inspired documentaries, books, and many other homages in pop culture. There is a statue of them at the African American museum in DC. They have specifically been mentioned as inspirational by many, many civil rights activists since. If you use your test of "Are they household names?" then most historical figures don't fit the bill. Most people in the U.S. have no idea who the Marquis de Lafayette was but that doesn't change his status as a very important historic figure. And before you jump on that, no I am not saying Colin Kaepernick is in the same league as Lafayette, I'm just saying your test of what it takes to be considered important is flawed.

Last Edited: 12/7/2017 9:00:50 AM by DelBobcat

BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 12/7/2017 10:36:46 AM

rpbobcat wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

I'm not s sure that Carlos and Smith are the right comparison.

For starters, Lyndon Johnson didn't publicly attack Carlos and Smith a dozen times. He didn't call their mothers' bitches. He didn't proudly say that they were unemployable because employers were afraid he'd criticize them. Donald Trump is -- purposefully -- turning Kaepernick into a villain he can attack during a reelection campaign, and that his part can campaign against in 2018. Kaepernick's not going anywhere because Trump doesn't want him to. And because a sitting United States President has made Colin Kaepernick a central part of how he rallies his base. It's something he's gone back to time and time again. And it's worked. Look at how passionately opposed to Kaepernick some people here are.

Put it this way: can you think of a single protest figure that's garnered more public attention in the last two decades? Who has more name recognition?

Last Edited: 12/7/2017 10:49:51 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

DelBobcat
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 12/7/2017 10:48:27 AM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

rpbobcat wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

I'm not s sure that Carlos and Smith are the right comparison.

For starters, Lyndon Johnson didn't publicly attack Carlos and Smith a dozen times. He didn't call their mothers' bitches. He didn't proudly say that they were unemployable because employers were afraid he'd criticize them.

A sitting United States President has made Colin Kaepernick a central part of how he rallies his base. It's something he's gone back to time and time again. And it's worked. Look at how passionately opposed to Kaepernick some people here are.

Put it this way: can you think of a single protest figure that's garnered more public attention in the last two decades? Who has more name recognition?

This is a very good point. When we look back on Trump's (abbreviated, hopefully) Presidency it will be hard not to talk about the NFL protests because he has made them a central pillar of his political strategy.

BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012

That one crazy fan
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 12/7/2017 12:24:03 PM

DelBobcat wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

rpbobcat wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

I'm not s sure that Carlos and Smith are the right comparison.

For starters, Lyndon Johnson didn't publicly attack Carlos and Smith a dozen times. He didn't call their mothers' bitches. He didn't proudly say that they were unemployable because employers were afraid he'd criticize them.

A sitting United States President has made Colin Kaepernick a central part of how he rallies his base. It's something he's gone back to time and time again. And it's worked. Look at how passionately opposed to Kaepernick some people here are.

Put it this way: can you think of a single protest figure that's garnered more public attention in the last two decades? Who has more name recognition?

One of the most interesting things that I'm surprised not many people have noticed with the whole protest thing going on is that the players, while kneeling, are still facing the flag with their hands on their hearts. There is still some reverence for the flag.

On another note, it's been said before, but the NFL isn't losing viewership because of the protests. More and more people are being turned off because of the issue of injury and brain trauma. While it isn't a concussion in this case, look at the issue with Ryan Shazier that happened Monday night. The man is potentially paralyzed from the waist down because he led with his head in a tackle. The player from Rutgers also comes to mind, who is paralyzed from the neck down. A few years ago, a high school kid in my hometown also potentially paralyzed himself (I forget the outcome, it was a few years ago and I can't keep up for the life of me) in a game. In no other sport do you see injuries such as this as often as this, not even rugby where there are no pads. I have several guy friends who are in no way liberal who hate football because of how harmful it is. You want a reason for the drop in viewership? Blame the rate of serious injury to the brain/spinal region, not the fact that a few players are taking part in a peaceful protest that doesn't inconvenience anyone in any way other than their perceived feelings of faux-patriotism are hurt.

The opposing team sucks!

rpbobcat
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 12/7/2017 12:44:16 PM

That one crazy fan wrote:

On another note, it's been said before, but the NFL isn't losing viewership because of the protests. More and more people are being turned off because of the issue of injury and brain trauma. While it isn't a concussion in this case, look at the issue with Ryan Shazier that happened Monday night. The man is potentially paralyzed from the waist down because he led with his head in a tackle. The player from Rutgers also comes to mind, who is paralyzed from the neck down. A few years ago, a high school kid in my hometown also potentially paralyzed himself (I forget the outcome, it was a few years ago and I can't keep up for the life of me) in a game. In no other sport do you see injuries such as this as often as this, not even rugby where there are no pads.

Because of what happened Monday night WFAN had several former NFL players on talking about the head tackling issue.

They said in many cases,players,especially at the youth level are either not being taught proper tackling technique or corrected when they lead with their head.

They also said a lot of players think that helmet provides more protection then it does or try use it as a "weapon".

DelBobcat
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 12/7/2017 1:50:59 PM

Yea, a bunch of players kneeling and silently facing the flag is just SO disrespectful. Yet when I went to the Bengals/Browns game a couple of weeks ago people were still shuffling into the stadium as the anthem played. I didn't see a single person stop and wait. Everyone just went about their business. How many of these same people are pissed about the protests?

BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 12/7/2017 2:20:46 PM

DelBobcat wrote:

Yep. And they're also totally fine with Trump continually attacking gold star families, criticizing others for their service records (McCain), and saying the reputation of law enforcement is in tatters.

That's all perfectly supportive of people who protect our freedoms. It's kneeling for the anthem that warrants an outcry.

BillyTheCat
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 12/7/2017 9:22:25 PM

rpbobcat wrote:

DelBobcat wrote:

Ask anyone who�s ever had me in class and they will tell you who Tommie Smith or John Carlos is. Just because you fail to value the contributions of brave people does not mean society and others do not.

BillyTheCat
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 12/7/2017 9:25:30 PM

rpbobcat wrote:

That one crazy fan wrote:

And at the same time Mike Mitchell is calling out the League for penalizing hits that lead with the head. Irony.

BillyTheCat
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 12/7/2017 9:26:33 PM

And I�m still curious why some of you, as anti-football as you are even pretend to support Ohio football

rpbobcat
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 12/8/2017 7:03:38 AM

BillyTheCat wrote:

Kaepernick is not MLK or Rosa Parks.

In 1968,when Tommie Smith and John Carlos raised their fists,it was headline news.
They became the "face" of the civil rights movement.

Ask the average person today who Tommie Smith and John Carlos are and see what answer you get.

In 10 years,I think it will be the same for Kaepernick.

Social activists may remember him,but that's about it.

Ask anyone who�s ever had me in class and they will tell you who Tommie Smith or John Carlos is. Just because you fail to value the contributions of brave people does not mean society and others do not.

So people who had a class with you know who Smith and Carlos are.

What I said was that,today,the average person does not.

I wonder,if you showed people under the age of 30 the picture of the medal ceremony from 1968,how many would know what it was.

I do value the contributions of people like MLK and Rosa Parks.I just don't put Smith,Carlos in the same league.

As I also posted previously,only time will tell how people view Kaerpernick.
He could be rallying cry for his cause,or a Jeopardy answer.

DelBobcat
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 12/8/2017 11:19:56 AM

rpbobcat wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

I think the problem here is that you don't know enough people under the age of 30. Millennials are the most highly-educated generation in history. Talk to a few and you'll see they're actually quite intelligent.

BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012

BillyTheCat
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 12/8/2017 12:34:49 PM

DelBobcat wrote:

rpbobcat wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

Another problem is just because he does not value the symbolism and heroic actions of Smith and Carlos, others will not either. Talk about egocentric

Alan Swank
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 12/8/2017 12:46:51 PM

Interesting piece in Time by Jeff Van Gundy.

http://time.com/5016104/stan-van-gundy-nfl-protests /

cc-cat
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 12/8/2017 5:16:20 PM

rpbobcat wrote:

What I said was that,today,the average person does not.

But let's remember the average person can't identify who our allies were in WWII and can't name all 50 states.

Alan Swank
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 12/8/2017 5:49:26 PM

DelBobcat wrote:

rpbobcat wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

Highly educated or have spent the most time in class? There is a huge difference and as others have stated, their knowledge of what we used to call civics is minimal. Teachers will tell you that drawing an analogy today is a very difficult task.

DelBobcat
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 12/9/2017 2:31:35 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

DelBobcat wrote:

rpbobcat wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

Highly educated. I meant what I said. Talk to some and you'll see. Also, millennials are not middle school and high school students. They're in their 20s and early 30s. They are the teachers not the students.

BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012

OhioCatFan
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 12/10/2017 1:39:34 PM

I agree with Alan here. This is not the most educated generation in U.S. history by a long shot. I will concede that there is a segment of the younger generation that is very educated, and in gross numbers this may be more than any previous generation, but on a percentage basis I truly think they are the minority.

Last Edited: 12/10/2017 1:40:37 PM by OhioCatFan

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

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Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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