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Topic:  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Topic:  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 2/13/2018 1:57:45 PM 
finnOhio wrote:
I would say that neither is a party of fiscal conservatism. I'd really wonder what the parties themselves truly stand for now rather than just say that they're for.

REPUBLICAN:

--Strong borders/anti-immigration
--Heavy military spending
--Low taxes
--Deregulation
--More of a corporate state
--Privatize, privatize, privatize
--Political incorrectness, to a fault
--State oversight on security

DEMOCRATS:

--Civil rights
--Government supporting the individual (healthcare, education, social security)
--Improving infrastructure
--Less reliant on a military state
--Individual rights
--Government regulation (increased minimum wage, safety regulations, etc.)
--Progressive tax structure
--Political correctness, to a fault


These are sort of the hallmarks that I see from each side. I don't believe that the budget is really anything more than a dog whistle at this point, used to stake flags in the sand on what one side wants over another.


Republicans say they are for smaller government and lower taxes but that is at the Federal level, they look to accomplish this at the Federal level by pushing financial responsibility to the state and local level - as evident in Trumps budget and his recommendation on infrastructure - which is also now pushed to the state a local level - which requires an increase in state and local taxes to support.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 2/13/2018 4:09:10 PM 
By the way, the heads of every major intelligence agency today acknowledged under oath that neither Trump nor any member of his administration has taken any steps to curb Russian election meddling, despite having been briefed several times about ongoing Russian activity.

But don't worry, Sean Hannity is on the case: https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/hannity-removes-po...

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 2/13/2018 4:29:15 PM 
Oh, and the FBI told the White House back in March about Porter's history of domestic violence and let them know he wouldn't get security clearance.

The White House ignored them and were in the process of promoting him.

And have lied about it consistently since last week.

No wonder our resident conservatives are MIA.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 2/15/2018 4:34:05 PM 
Another day, another school shooting.

At this point, I don't really give a shit if the Republican led government decides this is purely a mental health issue. I disagree, but more important to me is that something's done.

But this is only a mental health issue so that it's not a gun issue. It's not as if conservatives ever propose legislation to address the mental health issues they're so certain lead to the uniquely American mass shooting pandemic. It's pure deflection and nothing more, and as with any number of other issues, their supporters parrot those talking points like they believe in them.

But if they really believed in them, they'd expect the politicians they elect to pass bills to address the issue. But of course, they don't, and conservative voters don't care. They've comfortably settled into doing absolutely nothing about mass shootings or the rate of gun violence int his country that dwarfs those in other developed nations. It's a public health issue, and they do nothing. It's not that they simply disagree that gun control's the answer, and propose other solutions. They insist gun control isn't the answer and offer nothing by way of alternatives.

It's honestly pretty baffling. This is a mental health issue. It's a gun issue. And any real solution is going to necessitate changes in both areas.

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catfan28
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 2/16/2018 1:48:24 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
It's honestly pretty baffling. This is a mental health issue. It's a gun issue. And any real solution is going to necessitate changes in both areas.


A rare case that I'll agree with you. There needs to be some improvement to background checks and other measures to keep guns out of the hands of those that wish to do us harm. Maybe even more limitations on automatic weapons and who can purchase those. Mental health is also a big factor.

One big issue that is often missed: teachers and school administrators can only recommend kids to seek help for mental health treatment. Ultimately, the decision comes down to parents - who often either: 1. Don't know there's a problem, 2. Don't care there's a problem, or 3. Choose to ignore the problem. There are many teachers in my family and this issue has only gotten worse.

Missing in this conversation is the high teen suicide rate. Many times it's the same issues that lead to both. A teen suicide is just as tragic, but almost never receives the news coverage. It's a big issue - especially so recently in our part of the state.

There's no easy answer. But hopefully something productive can get done.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 2/16/2018 2:29:23 PM 
catfan28 wrote:


A rare case that I'll agree with you. There needs to be some improvement to background checks and other measures to keep guns out of the hands of those that wish to do us harm. Maybe even more limitations on automatic weapons and who can purchase those. Mental health is also a big factor.

One big issue that is often missed: teachers and school administrators can only recommend kids to seek help for mental health treatment. Ultimately, the decision comes down to parents - who often either: 1. Don't know there's a problem, 2. Don't care there's a problem, or 3. Choose to ignore the problem. There are many teachers in my family and this issue has only gotten worse.

Missing in this conversation is the high teen suicide rate. Many times it's the same issues that lead to both. A teen suicide is just as tragic, but almost never receives the news coverage. It's a big issue - especially so recently in our part of the state.

There's no easy answer. But hopefully something productive can get done.


Everyone on here knows I'm a staunch conservative.
I'm also 100% pro 2nd Amendment.

That being said:

1.I agree 100% that every firearm sale,even "person to person" should require a background check.
I've personally bought firearms "person to person"
I've always insisted the seller do a background check.
After having to go through background checks to get access to certain "secure" facilities,I'm really not worried about it.

2.I do get concerned when there is talk about restricting sales of certain types of firearms.
I look at it as a slippery slope.
I do believe that an individual should not be able to purchase any firearm,unless they take/pass a basic firearms safety course.
That,as well as fingerprinting, was required when I went for my New Jersey Firearms License.I don't know if it still is.
I also feel there could be "levels" of firearm purchase license.
The license requirements would deal with "proficiency" with a specific class of weapon only,not a perceived "need".
For example,a basic license for "standard" bolt action rifles and shot guns.
A more advanced license for semiautomatic weapons like an AR-15.

This would not include "conceal/carry".
That's a completely separate animal.

3.Since the Florida shooting I've heard a number of experts say exactly the same thing about the teacher/parent situation.
They also talk about a systemic breakdown in the nuclear family.
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 2/16/2018 3:34:05 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
catfan28 wrote:


A rare case that I'll agree with you. There needs to be some improvement to background checks and other measures to keep guns out of the hands of those that wish to do us harm. Maybe even more limitations on automatic weapons and who can purchase those. Mental health is also a big factor.

One big issue that is often missed: teachers and school administrators can only recommend kids to seek help for mental health treatment. Ultimately, the decision comes down to parents - who often either: 1. Don't know there's a problem, 2. Don't care there's a problem, or 3. Choose to ignore the problem. There are many teachers in my family and this issue has only gotten worse.

Missing in this conversation is the high teen suicide rate. Many times it's the same issues that lead to both. A teen suicide is just as tragic, but almost never receives the news coverage. It's a big issue - especially so recently in our part of the state.

There's no easy answer. But hopefully something productive can get done.


Everyone on here knows I'm a staunch conservative.
I'm also 100% pro 2nd Amendment.

That being said:

1.I agree 100% that every firearm sale,even "person to person" should require a background check.
I've personally bought firearms "person to person"
I've always insisted the seller do a background check.
After having to go through background checks to get access to certain "secure" facilities,I'm really not worried about it.

2.I do get concerned when there is talk about restricting sales of certain types of firearms.
I look at it as a slippery slope.
I do believe that an individual should not be able to purchase any firearm,unless they take/pass a basic firearms safety course.
That,as well as fingerprinting, was required when I went for my New Jersey Firearms License.I don't know if it still is.
I also feel there could be "levels" of firearm purchase license.
The license requirements would deal with "proficiency" with a specific class of weapon only,not a perceived "need".
For example,a basic license for "standard" bolt action rifles and shot guns.
A more advanced license for semiautomatic weapons like an AR-15.

This would not include "conceal/carry".
That's a completely separate animal.

3.Since the Florida shooting I've heard a number of experts say exactly the same thing about the teacher/parent situation.
They also talk about a systemic breakdown in the nuclear family.





And of those three, the most difficult to address is door number 3. Folks we can't go back to the days of 211 Pine Street so lets take care of what we can easily take care of - regulating guns.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 2/16/2018 4:25:03 PM 
catfan28 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
It's honestly pretty baffling. This is a mental health issue. It's a gun issue. And any real solution is going to necessitate changes in both areas.


A rare case that I'll agree with you. There needs to be some improvement to background checks and other measures to keep guns out of the hands of those that wish to do us harm. Maybe even more limitations on automatic weapons and who can purchase those. Mental health is also a big factor.

One big issue that is often missed: teachers and school administrators can only recommend kids to seek help for mental health treatment. Ultimately, the decision comes down to parents - who often either: 1. Don't know there's a problem, 2. Don't care there's a problem, or 3. Choose to ignore the problem. There are many teachers in my family and this issue has only gotten worse.

Missing in this conversation is the high teen suicide rate. Many times it's the same issues that lead to both. A teen suicide is just as tragic, but almost never receives the news coverage. It's a big issue - especially so recently in our part of the state.

There's no easy answer. But hopefully something productive can get done.


I may be imagining this, but I feel like there's been a bit of a seachange in how folks are responding to this particular shooting.

The most vocal folks on either side are all going to say the same things they've always said, but I get the distinct impression that the two sides are far closer on gun control than the NRA or far left groups who want to confiscate guns want people to believe.

This is a uniquely American problem and it's time to address it. Universal background checks and additional safety measures are an obvious, broadly supported step.

It's reassuring how much consensus there seems to be on this.

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Deciduous Forest Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 2/16/2018 5:30:53 PM 
not just more checks, but a a renewed and more strict assault weapons ban needs to happen. There is simply no reason for military grade weaponry to be in civilian hands. I'm more terrified of any American who thinks they need such a weapon than I am of anything crossing our border illegally. And it's not even close.

Last Edited: 2/16/2018 5:31:36 PM by Deciduous Forest Cat
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 2/17/2018 6:54:36 AM 
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
not just more checks, but a a renewed and more strict assault weapons ban needs to happen. There is simply no reason for military grade weaponry to be in civilian hands. I'm more terrified of any American who thinks they need such a weapon than I am of anything crossing our border illegally. And it's not even close.


And the FBI has for several years tried to warn us that the domestic threat is way more prevalent than the foreign threat.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 2/17/2018 9:50:57 AM 
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
not just more checks, but a a renewed and more strict assault weapons ban needs to happen. There is simply no reason for military grade weaponry to be in civilian hands. I'm more terrified of any American who thinks they need such a weapon than I am of anything crossing our border illegally. And it's not even close.


The question is,how do you define "military grade weaponry"?

Is it what the weapon looks like ?

Is it the fact that its semi automatic ?

Is it the weapon's caliber ?

Most people look at the AR-15 or similar style weapons and call them assault weapons.
N.J. has severe restrictions on assault weapons.
Yet,there is Bushmaster rifle that uses an AR-15 platform (semi automatic,removable magazine,same caliber),but is perfectly legal in N.J.

There are also semiautomatic hunting rifles and pump shot shotguns that are just as deadly as an AR style weapon.

Another interesting,though some will say not pertinent point,at the time the Constitution was written,many civilians had higher quality (rifle vs musket) weapons then the military.


Last Edited: 2/17/2018 9:52:04 AM by rpbobcat
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catfan28
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 2/17/2018 10:44:06 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:

And the FBI has for several years tried to warn us that the domestic threat is way more prevalent than the foreign threat.


Go join the FBI fan club already...Geesh. You clearly think they can do no wrong.

I'd love to know how you felt about them back when Comey re-opened the Hillary investigation (which, btw, I felt was wrong too).

Last Edited: 2/17/2018 11:16:49 AM by catfan28
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 2/17/2018 11:31:32 AM 
catfan28 wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:

And the FBI has for several years tried to warn us that the domestic threat is way more prevalent than the foreign threat.


Go join the FBI fan club already...Geesh. You clearly think they can do no wrong.

I'd love to know how you felt about them back when Comey re-opened the Hillary investigation (which, btw, I felt was wrong too).



Everybody can agree the FBI has had plenty of issues over the years. But the political expediency of the Right's turn against them is, frankly, telling. Hard to take the concerns seriously considering they were nowhere to be found until a few months ago.

Hell, even when Mueller was appointed the Right insisted he was an excellent choice (because they appointed him). Now the whole thing needs to be torn down?

Personally, my stance is that many of the power structures of our government are in very bad shape. But that the checks and balances they provide each other are a delicate balance, and obvious, political attempts to discredit certain institutions are not only disingenuous, but dangerous and should be shunned. And since nobody here can seem to point out any obvious instances of investigators supposed political biases impacting their work, this all just seems like blatant politicking to me. Hell, as gross as it is, I can even admit it's good politics. The Trump admin managed to convince his supporters, basically overnight, that law enforcement's bad. Look at how the polling on that issue looks on the right over the last decade. It's really stark that suddenly the FBI isn't trustworthy.

In other words, I don't think the FBI is perfect. Far from it. But I think their role's essential and should be guarded and I think the fact that the Right's opinion shifted so quickly betrays a political bias that's far more present than anything they're pointing out at the FBI.

Last Edited: 2/17/2018 11:38:10 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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catfan28
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 2/17/2018 11:48:06 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Everybody can agree the FBI has had plenty of issues over the years. But the political expediency of the Right's turn against them is, frankly, telling. Hard to take the concerns seriously considering they were nowhere to be found until a few months ago.

Hell, even when Mueller was appointed the Right insisted he was an excellent choice (because they appointed him). Now the whole thing needs to be torn down?

Personally, my stance is that many of the power structures of our government are in very bad shape. But that the checks and balances they provide each other are a delicate balance, and obvious, political attempts to discredit certain institutions are not only disingenuous, but dangerous and should be shunned. And since nobody here can seem to point out any obvious instances of investigators supposed political biases impacting their work, this all just seems like blatant politicking to me. Hell, as gross as it is, I can even admit it's good politics. The Trump admin managed to convince his supporters, basically overnight, that law enforcement's bad. Look at how the polling on that issue looks on the right over the last decade. It's really stark that suddenly the FBI isn't trustworthy.

In other words, I don't think the FBI is perfect. Far from it. But I think their role's essential and should be guarded and I think the fact that the Right's opinion shifted so quickly betrays a political bias that's far more present than anything they're pointing out at the FBI.


I actually agree with most of this. The power structures of most government institutions are in bad shape, and everything has gotten overly politicized. To me, the FBI has gotten too big and too powerful...as has most of our government. But unfortunately, government almost never gets smaller.

Unlike many on the right, I thought Mueller was an awful choice. Then again, I'm not a big fan of George W. either.

I think the recent developments have opened the public's eyes to the issues within the FBI, Justice Dept. and law enforcement in general. A healthy mistrust, no matter what side of the aisle you're on, is a good thing in my mind.

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 2/17/2018 7:24:06 PM 
catfan28 wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:

And the FBI has for several years tried to warn us that the domestic threat is way more prevalent than the foreign threat.


Go join the FBI fan club already...Geesh. You clearly think they can do no wrong.

I'd love to know how you felt about them back when Comey re-opened the Hillary investigation (which, btw, I felt was wrong too).



I had no problem with the Hillary investigation, if their was sufficient reason to investigate then you investigate. I’m all for nailing the shit out of white colallar and political crimes, regardless of who they are. I also respect the findings and the decision to either prosecute or not. I know that doesn’t jive with what you want to believe of me or others who believe the FBI is a fine and professional organization.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 2/17/2018 7:25:12 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
catfan28 wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:

And the FBI has for several years tried to warn us that the domestic threat is way more prevalent than the foreign threat.


Go join the FBI fan club already...Geesh. You clearly think they can do no wrong.

I'd love to know how you felt about them back when Comey re-opened the Hillary investigation (which, btw, I felt was wrong too).



Everybody can agree the FBI has had plenty of issues over the years. But the political expediency of the Right's turn against them is, frankly, telling. Hard to take the concerns seriously considering they were nowhere to be found until a few months ago.

Hell, even when Mueller was appointed the Right insisted he was an excellent choice (because they appointed him). Now the whole thing needs to be torn down?

Personally, my stance is that many of the power structures of our government are in very bad shape. But that the checks and balances they provide each other are a delicate balance, and obvious, political attempts to discredit certain institutions are not only disingenuous, but dangerous and should be shunned. And since nobody here can seem to point out any obvious instances of investigators supposed political biases impacting their work, this all just seems like blatant politicking to me. Hell, as gross as it is, I can even admit it's good politics. The Trump admin managed to convince his supporters, basically overnight, that law enforcement's bad. Look at how the polling on that issue looks on the right over the last decade. It's really stark that suddenly the FBI isn't trustworthy.

In other words, I don't think the FBI is perfect. Far from it. But I think their role's essential and should be guarded and I think the fact that the Right's opinion shifted so quickly betrays a political bias that's far more present than anything they're pointing out at the FBI.



+1
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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 5/31/2020 8:16:04 PM 
Robert Fox wrote:
What will be the end-game of all this kneeling, I wonder? How will the country be "healed" by this kneeling? Since the point is about police brutality, I wonder if police departments across the USA will suddenly change their policies?

How soon can we expect the healing to begin? I wonder if all the kneeling participants know what the issue is? The female singer who kneeled after the performance? The 8-year-old youth football players? I wonder if white people are capable of understanding the complexities here?


"Do you understand NOW!!??!!?? Or is it still blurred to you??

I would love to claim the above questions. However, it is LeBron James who is demanding all of us to reconsider Colin Kaepernick's actions.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 5/31/2020 11:32:48 PM 
bobcatsquared wrote:
Robert Fox wrote:
What will be the end-game of all this kneeling, I wonder? How will the country be "healed" by this kneeling? Since the point is about police brutality, I wonder if police departments across the USA will suddenly change their policies?

How soon can we expect the healing to begin? I wonder if all the kneeling participants know what the issue is? The female singer who kneeled after the performance? The 8-year-old youth football players? I wonder if white people are capable of understanding the complexities here?


"Do you understand NOW!!??!!?? Or is it still blurred to you??

I would love to claim the above questions. However, it is LeBron James who is demanding all of us to reconsider Colin Kaepernick's actions.


+1
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RSBobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 6/1/2020 4:53:11 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
bobcatsquared wrote:
Robert Fox wrote:
What will be the end-game of all this kneeling, I wonder? How will the country be "healed" by this kneeling? Since the point is about police brutality, I wonder if police departments across the USA will suddenly change their policies?

How soon can we expect the healing to begin? I wonder if all the kneeling participants know what the issue is? The female singer who kneeled after the performance? The 8-year-old youth football players? I wonder if white people are capable of understanding the complexities here?


"Do you understand NOW!!??!!?? Or is it still blurred to you??

I would love to claim the above questions. However, it is LeBron James who is demanding all of us to reconsider Colin Kaepernick's actions.


+1


+ 1

RS Bobcat

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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 6/1/2020 11:40:37 PM 

+1
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 6/7/2020 10:27:24 AM 
RSBobcat wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
bobcatsquared wrote:
Robert Fox wrote:
What will be the end-game of all this kneeling, I wonder? How will the country be "healed" by this kneeling? Since the point is about police brutality, I wonder if police departments across the USA will suddenly change their policies?

How soon can we expect the healing to begin? I wonder if all the kneeling participants know what the issue is? The female singer who kneeled after the performance? The 8-year-old youth football players? I wonder if white people are capable of understanding the complexities here?


"Do you understand NOW!!??!!?? Or is it still blurred to you??

I would love to claim the above questions. However, it is LeBron James who is demanding all of us to reconsider Colin Kaepernick's actions.


+1


+ 1



+1.

It's interesting now, to look back on Kaepernick and others who started the kneeling in an attempt to raise awareness. They were in the right then, and when/if they do it this fall, they will remain in the right.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 6/7/2020 2:10:57 PM 
OU_Country wrote:
RSBobcat wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
bobcatsquared wrote:
Robert Fox wrote:
What will be the end-game of all this kneeling, I wonder? How will the country be "healed" by this kneeling? Since the point is about police brutality, I wonder if police departments across the USA will suddenly change their policies?

How soon can we expect the healing to begin? I wonder if all the kneeling participants know what the issue is? The female singer who kneeled after the performance? The 8-year-old youth football players? I wonder if white people are capable of understanding the complexities here?


"Do you understand NOW!!??!!?? Or is it still blurred to you??

I would love to claim the above questions. However, it is LeBron James who is demanding all of us to reconsider Colin Kaepernick's actions.


+1


+ 1



+1.

It's interesting now, to look back on Kaepernick and others who started the kneeling in an attempt to raise awareness. They were in the right then, and when/if they do it this fall, they will remain in the right.


Not according to some on here.
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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 7/4/2020 1:52:04 PM 
If Trump and others had not demonized the peaceful protest at that time and addressed the concerns of the African American community in an even handed way, we may not be where we are today.
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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 7/5/2020 1:59:37 AM 
giacomo wrote:
If Trump and others had not demonized the peaceful protest at that time and addressed the concerns of the African American community in an even handed way, we may not be where we are today.


lol

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

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Member Since: 12/6/2005
Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County
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  Message Not Read  RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?
   Posted: 7/10/2020 3:43:12 PM 
giacomo wrote:
If Trump and others had not demonized the peaceful protest at that time and addressed the concerns of the African American community in an even handed way, we may not be where we are today.


In and ideal world, yes. Probably not in this world though. Maybe it would be farther along in the right direction?
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