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Topic: RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Topic: RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

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cc-cat
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 9/25/2017 9:46:51 AM

Per /\/\/\/\/\/\/\

1. Appreciate the foreign soil concern - Michael Smirconish talking that now.

2. "Their time" and job is to play football. No one has an issue in past if a player stayed in locker room to get fluids. Whole anthem element became formal in 2009 - per payout from DOD to NFL.

3. Originally to protest social injustice - but since Trump called them Son of a Bitches.

3b. Can you imagine the reaction from the right (and southern right) if Obama had called the protesters caring tiki torches in Charlottesville "those son of a bitches" - yet such language and decorum is accepted (and cheered) under Trump.

4. Trump seems more concerned with NFL players kneeling in protest than white supremacists chanting "Jews will not replace us" and "soil and blood." Let lone an island of American citizens (PR) with their lives devastated.

5. Per your comment in #2 if they stayed in the locker room and took a penalty (and automatically lost the coin toss), then their protest DOES impact the game. THAT impacts the team, fans, etc.

Alan Swank
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 9/25/2017 9:52:16 AM

Interesting read and even more interesting how large the opinions as expressed by the pros and cons are. Hopefully there are some serious discussions in our schools today about this very important topic.

https://www.procon.org/headline.php?headlineID=005323

allen
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 9/25/2017 10:25:19 AM

rpbobcat wrote:

Interesting topic to wake up to.

Since I don't want to take up a lot of space with quotes:

Robert Fox +1

Cat Fan +1

Roger +1

1.Personally I think that taking a knee,while wearing an NFL uniform, isn't appropriate.When you're in uniform you are not representing yourself.
Doing it on foreign soil is worse.

2.If you have an issue you want to use your status as player to promote, fine,just do it on your own time.
There was piece on t.v. last night about 2 players,I believe from the Dolphins, doing just that.

3.Exactly what are the players that took a knee protesting ?
They had interviews with a number of players after the games.
Funny,"he's not my president" was the reason some of them gave.

Imagine the reaction if players did that when Obama was president.

4.Robert Goodell seems a lot more upset about President Trump's comments,then he was with a number of NFL player actions.Anyone remember Ray Rice for example ?

5.As far staying in the locker room,the Raiders were going to do just that.
Then they found out,based on the timing of the kickoff,they'd get hit with a 15 yard penalty.
According to WFAN,apparently,the penalty was more important then their commitment to their cause.

Goodell has not banned Trump from earning a living or going to 6 games. Goodell merely disagreed with an idiot calling people's son's of b's for voicing their concerns. I think you care more about this than Trump colluding with Russia who is paying taliban fighters to fight our young men and women who protect our right to protest. The original protest was about police brutality, now that Trump has sounded off, this week was mainly about the opposition to his statement. I don't blieve that you believe your post. Doing it on your their own time, they are doing it during the pregame, there is no national anthem SOP, lol. Flag 15 yards, unnecessary post, 4th down.

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

Sam bobcat
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 9/25/2017 11:06:07 AM

BillyTheCat wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

I submit the following for a little perspective on the meaning of the flag. The following article refers to the heroism of Sgt. William Carney of the 54th Massachusetts and the unsuccessful assault on Ft. Wagner during the late Rebellion. The 54th Mass was, of course, a colored regiment, which was the subject of the movie Glory. If you've never seen this movie, I highly recommend it.
Here's a URL to the whole article:http://tinyurl.com/y8xjv2qp
Here's key quote from the article:
Carney was escorted to the rear. “An officer of the day came and took my name and regiment and putting me in charge of the hospital corps told them to find my regiment,” he recalled. The corpsmen led Carney to a group of 25 to 30 of his comrades and one lieutenant, Alexander Johnston of Company F. Carney remembered, “When I reached these men they cheered me and the flag, and my reply was ‘Boys, the old flag never touched the ground,’ and I delivered it from my own hands to” Lieutenant Johnston.
Sgt. Carney's statement that "the old flag never touched the ground" was immortalized in a song that became popular around 1900. Below are the orignal lyrics of the chorus of that song:
'Twas the Blue against the Gray, Boys, And he said to all around, "I've only done my duty boys, The old Flag never touch'd the ground. "I've only done my duty boys," He said to all around, "I've only done my duty boys, It never touched the ground. And, here's the 1st verse: Again the fires of soldier-life are kindled to my view,
And I recall the bloody strife that made our nation new,
When 'Camp Fires' of the Colored man, a book with title rare,
I read with pride, with pleasure scan, to learn our helpful share.
Another quote, from Wikipedia, gives further understanding to Sgt. Carney's deeds:

The account of Sgt. Carney's action as it appeared in The United States Service Magazine, 1864: As our forces retire, Sergeant Carney, who has kept the colors of his regiment flying upon the parapet of Wagner during the entire conflict, is seen creeping along on one knee, still holding up the flag, and only yielding its sacred trust upon finding an officer of his regiment. As he enter the field-hospital, where his wounded comrades are being brought in, they cheer him and the colors. Though nearly exhausted with the loss of blood, he says, "Boys, the old flag never touched the ground."

Seriously????? This isn't about the flag, this is about freedom of speech, and expression! I see dozens of "patriots" a week who brake flag etiquette. So take your history lesson and leave it in the 19th century.

The majority of those screaming about desecrating the Flag are the same racists flying Confederate flags on their homes and vehicles...weird.
I wonder how many of those patriotic confederates are republicans?

Last Edited: 9/25/2017 11:10:09 AM by Sam bobcat

Kevin Finnegan
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 9/25/2017 11:08:43 AM

Without going too political, the thing that baffles me is why this affects anybody. Had anyone paid attention to athletes and the national anthem before? This is completely a manufactured outrage.

Instead, the POTUS has now tweeted (his main form of communication with the masses) or retweeted 15 different messages about the NFL players and standing for the national anthem. This is meant to divide into two groups, those for the protests, those against the protests. Pick a side. Stake your flag. This realistically does not have a direct affect on any of our day-to-day lives unless we let it.

However, 3.5 million Americans in Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands are actually suffering great harm right now. That is more residents than are in Iowa, Utah, Mississippi, Arkansas, Nevada, Kansas, New Mexico, Nebraska, West Virginia, Idaho, Hawaii, New Hampshire, Maine, Rhode Island, Montana, Delaware, South Dakota, North Dakota, Alaska, Vermont or Wyoming. I count ONE tweet in reference to Puerto Rico. Please, Mr. President, spend more time focusing on actual issues that have a direct impact on the lives of Americans than finding ways to make people pick sides. Keep Puerto Rico relevant in discussions and fundraising efforts. This is a far bigger issue than whether somebody goes to a knee during our national song performed by Lady Gaga or whomever.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 9/25/2017 11:09:53 AM

I grew up in a military family and lived on a military base for 18 years of my life. My father saw combat, as did both of my grandparents and two uncles. All are decorated and committed their careers to service of the country.

And despite that, I find the attempt to co-opt the flag as a symbol of the troops and little else to be disingenuous. Yes, the flag symbolizes the ideals that our troops fight for. But their patriotism doesn't supersede the patriotism of civilians. They don't own a monopoly on love of America or the ideals that make it great, and I think the notion that protesting during the national anthem is somehow a direct insult to veterans is specious at best.

Sam bobcat
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 9/25/2017 11:18:52 AM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

It's done to delegitimize the protesters and what they are protesting. Period.
Racists are cowards. I'm a veteran and am furious that people who have never served are using this argument. Republicans have become sheep, they just bleat out whatever they hear from their leaders or Fox News. No more original thoughts or ideas. Just propaganda and shade. The democrats aren't much better either.

Robert Fox
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 9/25/2017 11:30:25 AM

If I'm against the kneeling, am I a racist too?

catfan28
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Location: Athens, OH
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 9/25/2017 11:32:33 AM

OK, let's see how your "facts" hold up...

allen wrote:

His wife claimed he raped her.
http://www.snopes.com/are-we-not-going-to-talk-about-trump /

Key word being "claimed". A lot of people claim a lot of things about those with money, and for bad intentions. Who knows what happened, but they have a good relationship today.

allen wrote:

six bankruptcies
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2016/live-updates...

OK, out of over 500+ companies that he's owned. I'll take a 95% success rate.

allen wrote:

First three words.
http://constitutionus.com /

Not sure what this is getting at. He's not looking to abolish the Constitution...

allen wrote:

Putin paying Taliban fighters, from Fox News
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/05/17/evidence-russian-...

Putin isn't a nice guy, I think we all know that. Still, Trump wants an improved relationship with Russia...I can handle that. Why the left wants another Cold War is beyond me.

allen wrote:

Manafort offering Russia briefings
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/manafort-offered-...

So what? When the Russia investigation amounts to anything substantial, let me know. It's over-hyped by the media to create a salacious story. Even Van Jones was caught off camera saying that there is nothing to the Russia story. Just because Manafort is a shady guy (he is) doesn't mean Trump is some secret Russian agent. Stop watching MSNBC.

allen wrote:

Kaep donating 1 million by his self.
http://sportsillustrated.com.ph/US/nfl/2016/09/02/49ers-c...

Good for him. Other athletes should put their money where their mouth is.

allen wrote:

Trump not having a soul.
http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-on-god-i-dont-like-t...

Not even worth responding too. That you state this as some "fact" is hilarious.

allen wrote:

Trump's base being uneducated.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/11/07/us/how-tru...
Trump acknowledging his base is uneducated.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/91033299275683...
His base in action.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFQhw3VVToQ

So? That he likes the poorly educated is a bad thing?? Maybe if the Democrats did that they wouldn't be losing every election. And that is such a generalized statement. I have a doctorate and know plenty of others that do and support the President.

allen wrote:

Trump praising white supremacists.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/trum... /
95%, yeah ok.

This is a media and DNC talking point. He never - once - defended white supremacists. He has disavowed the KKK, neo-nazis, etc. on multiple occasions. He pointed out that the counter protesters in Virginia were also violent, which is true. Many were carrying billy clubs and boards with nails on them. Bad, violent people on both sides. Hardly an inflammatory statement. Again, you are falling for the media line.

It took me 5 minutes to basically dispel everything. Stop reading Huffington Post and watching MSNBC, and maybe you'll start to interpret things for how they are.

Also, funny how you did not challenge my claims of:
1. Certain Trump reelection
2. Democratic party downfall and abysmal fundraising

catfan28
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 9/25/2017 11:44:44 AM

This video (and the responses to it) tells me how mainstream America feels about the issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjLGehpVu8Y

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 9/25/2017 11:59:20 AM

catfan28 wrote:

This video (and the responses to it) tells me how mainstream America feels about the issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjLGehpVu8Y

This is, frankly, not at all relevant.

Mainstream America -- whatever that means -- is welcome to disapprove of the actions of these players. They have every right to voice their displeasure, whether via boos or with their wallets.

What they don't have the right to do is silence free speech, and the entire reason this issue became so prominent this week is that a sitting President called on a private company to fire employees for exercising free speech rights. He also did this with an ESPN reporter two weeks ago. We all should find that deeply troubling. In no uncertain terms, what is happening is that the state is trying to use it's power to silence free speech that it disagrees with.

What troubles me most is that Republicans, traditionally and of late, have been vociferous in their support of free speech. They've rightfully pointed out how problematic the reaction of college students to ideas they disagree with has become. They've been rightly critical of companies like Google who have terminated employees for expressing views that their employer found to be problematic.

That they're now supporting a President who has taken the polar opposite stance feels hypocritical and leaves me with no choice but to question the strength of their conviction.

And yet, now they support a President who spoke out against the constitutional rights of Americans. He has asked the NFL to fire players for exercising their right to free speech, and has called on his supporters to boycott the league to show their displeasure. The state is sponsoring a rebuke on citizens who peacefully protested. And as with every other issue, Americans respond based on party lines.

Last Edited: 9/25/2017 12:04:37 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

Alan Swank
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 9/25/2017 12:06:09 PM

catfan28 wrote:

This video (and the responses to it) tells me how mainstream America feels about the issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjLGehpVu8Y

If by mainstream you mean white men who can afford NFL tickets then yes, you're probably right. The reality is that demographic is far from representative of the average American.

Last Edited: 9/25/2017 12:07:54 PM by Alan Swank

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 9/25/2017 12:14:08 PM

catfan28 wrote:

allen wrote:

The first three words of the constitution are We the people and we are being divided by a demagoguery laced, racist and ignorant president who used his freedom to get his lawyers to keep his ex wife's rape story out of her book. He used our flag to file BKO six times and not pay federal taxes for years. He also colluded with and is protective of Russian president Putin who is paying taliban fighters to send our soldiers home in body bags. He went to Alabama to tell people to vote for a man who decided to sign a bill because he allegedly worshipped the president and used the time to throw some red meat to his ignorant base with his NFL statement. He called the nazi's some fine individuals and the black protesters who donate millions to build unity some son's of b's. By doing this, he made himself look patriotic and he took the attention off his failing pledge to repeal and replace the ACA and diverted attention from the revelations of his former campaign manager offering to give Russian oligarchs briefings on his campaign shenanigans. The thing about it is that the protest were dying down until he opened his mouth. Let's pray that Trump gets a soul and let's pray that his base wakes up and forces him to look out for we the people. We the people being everybody, not just his worshippers.

Literally, 95% of everything referenced in this post is plain wrong, exaggerated or just ludicrous opinion. I'd bet anyone $1,000 today that Trump win reelection in 2020. And yet, as his last term runs out in 2023, there will still be crying over "Russia" and "racism" by those intent to bring him down. The only thing struggling right now is the Democratic Party, with no message and some of the worst fundraising numbers in history. This culture war stuff doesn't win votes.

"This culture war stuff doesn't win votes." Never has a statement been more wrong. The entire premise of the Trump campaign, the very backbone of their strategy, was that the culture war was the key to victory.

The culture war stuff absolutely wins votes. It wins votes for your party. That's why Trump went out of his way to make sure NFL protests are this week's talking point du jour. And why's that a preferable talking point? Because the President's been a complete and utter failure in terms of policy. He's doing it to distract you. He's doing it because his numbers show that you -- as a supporter of his -- care more about stupid, pointless NFL protests than you do about his inability to govern. This is a calculated way of distracting his base from the fact that he just swung and missed on healthcare for a third time, despite controlling every branch of the government.

I'm sorry to say it, but you're the mark here. Not the left. The Democrats aren't the one running on these issues. This culture war stuff does win votes. It wins votes from the right. It wins votes from people who are happy to support the President's call to have private citizens fired from private employers, but criticize Google and Universities for doing the same.

Last Edited: 9/25/2017 12:19:27 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

catfan28
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 9/25/2017 12:19:42 PM

Private employers can request whatever they want of private employees. "Free speech" means that the government can't lock you up for protesting. It doesn't mean that your employer can't expect certain behavior out of you.

bobcat695
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 9/25/2017 12:20:40 PM

Our fans automatically stand for the National Anthem and the 110. They passionately sit and remain quiet for defensive 3rd downs. That would be a lot more interesting discussion to me than the predictable political party line opinions of those "contributing" to this thread.

"You can't un-fist a fist pump." - Saul Phillips 1/24/15

BillyTheCat
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 9/25/2017 12:22:09 PM

allen wrote:

roger wrote:

I will not weigh in on if the issue behind the kneeling is right or wrong, I simply mean to show a different perspective and say there are other means to show discontent. For all of you I asked the question: have you ever been in a war? Have you ever served in another country for several years?For those of us that have, that flag is more than a piece of cloth. It represents the ideal of the best form of government the world has ever seen. It represents freedom to do many things that in countries we serve in that are against the law, it represents the hope that we will return to our own country in one piece sooner rather than later. So to see spoiled rich athletes not respect the flag is upsetting at best. We have many ways to protest in this country, why not use a method that doesn�t disrespect the very symbol that gives you the right to do it.

Roger

I have been to Afghanistan with the 170th IBCT. I was on bases where we had to stop our car and salute the flag or face UCMJ. A protest by it's own nature is civil disobedience to bring attention to your issue. Blacks feel like they are being treated like second class citizens, other demographics feel like they are treated that way as well so they are exercising their freedom together to protest. I commend any American that exercises their right to protest. I was deployed to Afghanisatan where lots of people (Afghans) could not read and spoke Pashtun, but said an Arabic prayers five times a day. They had no choice. North Korea's alarm clock is a praise song to their crazy leader at 5:30 in the morning. That is what we call Facism, I also witnessed the Bundy Clan take federal buildings and pull guns on federal authorities and their was hardly an uproar. If those were black people that seized those properties, they would have probably benn treated as enemy combatants and hit with air strikes. They definitely would have got convicted. So if you claim principle, apply it both ways. God bless

His 2nd best post of 3,000+

The fact that some get so bothered by a minority who exercises their rights is mind boggling and troubling at the same time!!! And those who believe these people need to find another arena or place to do this, well there have been other places of outlet for the frustrations and I am willing to bet you did not like those either. So bottom line to some people, they just want the minority to shut up!!!!

When riots were going on in Ferguson and mobs of people were blocking roadways all across America, all we heard about was these people need to find another way to protest. A call that peaceful protest is o.k., yet now that you've got peaceful protest, some are having their minds blown!

catfan28
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 9/25/2017 12:23:42 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

If by mainstream you mean white men who can afford NFL tickets then yes, you're probably right. The reality is that demographic is far from representative of the average American.

Wow. There are far more than just white men at professional football games. And I'd say the average NFL fan is rather indicative of the average America.

By mainstream America, I mean...quite bluntly...the vast majority of this country that doesn't care or pay much attention to politics. 20% of this country is far right, 20% are far left and the rest in the middle just want to have a good job and put food on the table. They aren't plugged into this crap that the media blows out of proportion for ratings.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 9/25/2017 12:24:52 PM

catfan28 wrote:

That's correct. But the President and his staff dictating the standard that private employers hold their employees to is very problematic.

Last Edited: 9/25/2017 12:25:23 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

catfan28
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 9/25/2017 12:25:45 PM

BillyTheCat wrote:

The fact that some get so bothered by a minority who exercises their rights is mind boggling and troubling at the same time!!! And those who believe these people need to find another arena or place to do this, well there have been other places of outlet for the frustrations and I am willing to bet you did not like those either. So bottom line to some people, they just want the minority to shut up!!!!

As an employee of a private entity, you have no right to protest. They can tell you how to behave and, if they disagree with you, can terminate your employment. Very few understand what "free speech" actually means.

catfan28
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 9/25/2017 12:26:52 PM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

That's correct. But the President and his staff dictating the standard that private employers hold their employees to is very problematic.

They can voice their opinions just as much as the next guy. I'm glad, for once, we don't have someone who is too PC to speak their mind. That's why he won, and will win again. If you don't see that, you don't get it.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 9/25/2017 12:27:16 PM

bobcat695 wrote:

Go start a thread about that then.

There's nothing less interesting than somebody stopping by to say they don't have anything to say.

BillyTheCat
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 9/25/2017 12:28:46 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

catfan28 wrote:

This video (and the responses to it) tells me how mainstream America feels about the issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjLGehpVu8Y

If by mainstream you mean white men who can afford NFL tickets then yes, you're probably right. The reality is that demographic is far from representative of the average American.

Bang!!!! Oh Baby what a big time post!

Alan Swank
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 9/25/2017 12:30:26 PM

catfan28 wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

If by mainstream you mean white men who can afford NFL tickets then yes, you're probably right. The reality is that demographic is far from representative of the average American.

Since when is racial injustice crap? The vast majority - no make that overwhelming majority - of fans in the stands at NFL games are white males.

https://brandongaille.com/17-captivating-nfl-fans-demogra... /

But again, those who support the status quo use all kinds of arguments to get us off track.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 9/25/2017 12:31:37 PM

catfan28 wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

That's correct. But the President and his staff dictating the standard that private employers hold their employees to is very problematic.

I actually just explained that I do get that. That was what that whole "culture war" thing was about. You see, Trump knows that you care more about fighting "PC culture" than you do about the first amendment. He understands that his base doesn't have deep convictions. They don't care if one week's anger about Google firing an Engineer is completely at odds with the next week's anger over NFL protests. Literally all they care about is the culture war, and all he does is stoke cultural issues. That was the entire premise of his campaign strategy.

Last Edited: 9/25/2017 12:35:30 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

BillyTheCat
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RE: How many will kneel at 1:00 today?

Posted: 9/25/2017 12:34:05 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

catfan28 wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

If by mainstream you mean white men who can afford NFL tickets then yes, you're probably right. The reality is that demographic is far from representative of the average American.

Catfan28 must have thought he was on the NASCAR message board.

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