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Topic:  RE: Official Game 25 Thread: Toledo

Topic:  RE: Official Game 25 Thread: Toledo
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GraffZ06
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 25 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 2/17/2024 2:03:18 PM 
Say what you want about this years team - our lack of size, our injuries, we play teams tough.

But, we're now 3-9 in games decided by 6 or less points (2 possessions).

Winners find ways to make winning plays in crunch time. This team consistently DOESN'T do that. They find ways to lose in crunch time. A bad turnover, a missed box-out, a flubbed tip-in, a missed free throw etc etc.
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mid70sbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 25 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 2/17/2024 3:29:49 PM 
ohiocatfan1 wrote:
Really tried to withhold judgment all year. That being said Wiz is awful. Watched him away from the ball on the defensive end and he is absolutely lost. Don't know how a HC tolerates this. He may be a great kid but facts are facts.


Actually, Wiz drops off his man and helps on the defense as much as anyone out there. Sure, he gets burned occasionally but last night he played well in 11 minutes. Seems like someone every game wants to blame him for whatever. He did NOT lose the game.

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GraffZ06
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 25 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 2/17/2024 3:35:36 PM 
mid70sbobcat wrote:
ohiocatfan1 wrote:
Really tried to withhold judgment all year. That being said Wiz is awful. Watched him away from the ball on the defensive end and he is absolutely lost. Don't know how a HC tolerates this. He may be a great kid but facts are facts.


Actually, Wiz drops off his man and helps on the defense as much as anyone out there. Sure, he gets burned occasionally but last night he played well in 11 minutes. Seems like someone every game wants to blame him for whatever. He did NOT lose the game.



Not to mention, Wiz had a no-look bucket off his head last night. How many can say that?
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Casper71
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 25 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 2/17/2024 5:07:49 PM 
One word…DEFENSE! We are going to score 75-80 points a lot. But if we give up 85 or 90 we’re not going to win.
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GraffZ06
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 25 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 2/17/2024 5:38:42 PM 
Casper71 wrote:
One word…DEFENSE! We are going to score 75-80 points a lot. But if we give up 85 or 90 we’re not going to win.


According to Torvik we are ranked #172.

Our offensive efficiency is ranked #104.
Our defensive efficiency is ranked #279.

You are correct.
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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 25 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 2/17/2024 5:48:17 PM 
GraffZ06 wrote:
Winners find ways to make winning plays in crunch time. This team consistently DOESN'T do that. They find ways to lose in crunch time. A bad turnover, a missed box-out, a flubbed tip-in, a missed free throw etc etc.


OUr veteran guard misses an open 3 pointer with the score tied at 1:10, after a travel turnover the previous possession by the same player.

UT's veteran guard hits a contested 3 from deeper range 11 seconds later to put UT up 3.
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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 25 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 2/17/2024 5:52:24 PM 
71 BOBCAT wrote:
Bottom line all year is rebounding.


There were times against UT where Ohio surrounded AJ Clayton with 6-1 Miles Brown, 6-1 Mitchell, 6-0 Hunter and James, who's listed a generous 6-3.
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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 25 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 2/17/2024 5:52:47 PM 
bobcatsquared wrote:
GraffZ06 wrote:
Winners find ways to make winning plays in crunch time. This team consistently DOESN'T do that. They find ways to lose in crunch time. A bad turnover, a missed box-out, a flubbed tip-in, a missed free throw etc etc.


OUr veteran guard misses an open 3 pointer with the score tied at 1:10, after a travel turnover the previous possession by the same player.

UT's veteran guard hits a contested 3 from deeper range 11 seconds later to put UT up 3.


Not to pile on, but OUr veteran guard also missed a critical 1-and-1 with the score tied in the last 4 minutes as well.

#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 25 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 2/17/2024 5:56:29 PM 
At the 2:37 mark, to be precise. However, like you, I didn't want to pile on.
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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 25 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 2/18/2024 9:29:45 AM 
Wow, the kid outmuscles 2 taller players for the rebound, loses his balance and in trying to control the ball is called for a questionable travel. 12 pts., 50% from the field, 78% from the line, 2 steals. But no, he's not Dante Maddox.

When it's time to pile on bobcatsquared for his inanity, I'm all in.



Last Edited: 2/18/2024 9:37:50 AM by SBH
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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 25 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 2/18/2024 10:49:50 AM 
Bring it on SBH, I have big shoulders and thick skin.

My point is that in a league where the best teams are guard oriented, Ohio comes up lacking. The following includes Miles Brown's time in Athens.

2019-20: Freshman year - no MAC tourney due to COVID.

2020-21: Ohio wins tourney and beats UVa in 1st round. Miles is little used backup guard, playing behind NBA draftee Jason Preston and Mark Sears, now leading Alabama, first place in the SEC.

2021-22: Ohio loses in the quarterfinals to Ball St. with Miles a starter in 30 of 31 Ohio games. Akron, led by pt guard Casteneda, defeats Kent, led by Carry and M. Jacobs, in the finals. UT won the regular season with Rollins, an NBA draftee, and Dennis, now running the point at Baylor.

2022-23: Ohio loses to Kent St. in the semis. Kent beats UT in the title game. Kent is again led by Carry and Jacobs with support from Sullinger. UT is led by Dennis and the M&M boys, Maddox and Moss. Brown starts all 33 Ohio games.

You can draw your own conclusion. But if you still believe my outlook is inane after providing the above facts, you'll have to give a pass to our political leaders who claim "fake news" or "conspiracy" every time facts get in the way of their objective.

Last Edited: 2/18/2024 10:50:10 AM by bobcatsquared
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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 25 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 2/18/2024 11:13:47 AM 
bobcatsquared wrote:


2021-22: Ohio loses in the quarterfinals to Ball St. with Miles a starter in 30 of 31 Ohio games. Akron, led by pt guard Casteneda, defeats Kent, led by Carry and M. Jacobs, in the finals. UT won the regular season with Rollins, an NBA draftee, and Dennis, now running the point at Baylor.



Ohio beat Ball State in the 2021-2022 MAC quarterfinals. While I find Boals career record against the big three (Akron, Toledo, Kent) very alarming, on the flip side, he has yet to bow out in the quarterfinals of any MAC tournament as coach of the Bobcats.

Last Edited: 2/18/2024 11:14:16 AM by FearLeon

#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 25 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 2/18/2024 11:42:11 AM 
Yes, you're right. Ohio lost to Kent in the semis after beating Ball St. in 1/4 finals.
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shabamon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 25 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 2/18/2024 11:49:02 AM 
The last two years we have beaten Ball State in the quarters. Two years ago we lost to Kent in the semis and last year we lost to Toledo.
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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 25 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 2/18/2024 12:36:01 PM 
bobcatsquared wrote:
Bring it on SBH, I have big shoulders and thick skin.

My point is that in a league where the best teams are guard oriented, Ohio comes up lacking. The following includes Miles Brown's time in Athens.

2019-20: Freshman year - no MAC tourney due to COVID.

2020-21: Ohio wins tourney and beats UVa in 1st round. Miles is little used backup guard, playing behind NBA draftee Jason Preston and Mark Sears, now leading Alabama, first place in the SEC.

2021-22: Ohio loses in the quarterfinals to Ball St. with Miles a starter in 30 of 31 Ohio games. Akron, led by pt guard Casteneda, defeats Kent, led by Carry and M. Jacobs, in the finals. UT won the regular season with Rollins, an NBA draftee, and Dennis, now running the point at Baylor.

2022-23: Ohio loses to Kent St. in the semis. Kent beats UT in the title game. Kent is again led by Carry and Jacobs with support from Sullinger. UT is led by Dennis and the M&M boys, Maddox and Moss. Brown starts all 33 Ohio games.

You can draw your own conclusion. But if you still believe my outlook is inane after providing the above facts, you'll have to give a pass to our political leaders who claim "fake news" or "conspiracy" every time facts get in the way of their objective.


Your glaring error negates the balance of the content. As when Gerald Ford out-debated Jimmy Carter in late 1975, only to slip up and claim Eastern Europe was not under Soviet domination.
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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 25 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 2/18/2024 2:12:16 PM 
My final point on this topic is this: if the NCAA kept a stat on most field goal attempts being blocked, I wouldn't be surprised if OUr 5th-year guard would be among the ignominious leaders.

Last Edited: 2/18/2024 2:13:19 PM by bobcatsquared
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GraffZ06
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 25 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 2/18/2024 2:23:31 PM 
I wasn't trying to start a diss Miles conversation. More a generalization that this team has NO guys that consistently make winning plays in crunch time.

That includes Miles, but normally you're looking at your best players/team leaders. I'm looking squarely at Jaylin Hunter, AJ Clayton and Shereef Mitchell.
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bobcat 2000
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 25 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 2/18/2024 4:09:47 PM 
getting hammered on rebounds is a problem for this team. the sooner boals recruits a gary trent type player the better. even someone whos 6'8 240 with good reach will do. and boals needs to stop this no one will play us excuse for having apoor non conference schedule. senderoff from kent state doesnt seem to have that problem. case in point kent played houston and gonzaga. no reason why we cant get michigan state ,kansas, duke or even indiana on schedule.
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Pete Chouteau
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 25 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 2/18/2024 4:13:32 PM 
I agree, getting a player to Athens that will become one of the top 5 players to ever take the court in the MAC should help Ohio succeed.

Maybe get two of them to be safer.
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GraffZ06
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 25 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 2/18/2024 5:40:31 PM 
Pete Chouteau wrote:
I agree, getting a player to Athens that will become one of the top 5 players to ever take the court in the MAC should help Ohio succeed.

Maybe get two of them to be safer.


But we've already got Quinn Corna.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 25 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 2/19/2024 8:45:50 AM 
bobcat 2000 wrote:
the sooner boals recruits a gary trent type player the better.


Those guys just grow on trees, can't believe Coach Boals hasn't been down to the local Dick's Sporting Goods Store and just picked him one up yet.
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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 25 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 2/19/2024 9:01:47 AM 
Well anyway, that was a really good game I thought. A lot of energy from both teams and some good performances. It is hard to get upset about losing a toss-up at the end at Toledo.

The close losses at the end are frustrating absolutely. And yes they can indicate breakdowns in coaching and on court execution in crunch time. But also, it could just be kind of dumb luck and an indication we are very close to being a lot better than we are....and that our luck could flip at any moment.

The Boals technical was stupid and ultimately hurt us big time. It wasn't even close to a foul or anything to get that upset over. I have said it before and I will say it again, I do not like Boals overall approach and demeanor to the officials. His face and body language is constantly whiney towards them, which only makes them dismiss you when you have a legitimate gripe. He needs to pick his spots more. And worse than all that, it can cultivate an environment on the team of victim players always looking for fouls that never commit fouls themselves.

I complained about DW not getting enough minutes last year, but understood there was injury/stamina issues. I am not sure I see the same basis for Clayton? I don't see why he needed to sit 11 minutes in a game like this. There were a couple runs that it would have been nice to still have him out there. The AJC 2 point watch - He actually attempted 5 this game versus 8 from 3...not bad, I will take it.

Jaylin is shooting really really well right now. If he keeps this roll going he can absolutely lead us on a run. I'd like to see Miles hoist more and Reef hoist a little less / be more selective. The final possession before the free-throw-a-thon was a garbage shot, very disappointing.

Speaking of the free-throw-a-thon...surely basketball can do SOMETHING about this right? What an annoying snoozefest to finish a great basketball game. Non-shooting fouls when in the double bonus and under 10 seconds to play = 3 free throws. Why not?

Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 25 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 2/19/2024 9:12:26 AM 
GraffZ06 wrote:
I wasn't trying to start a diss Miles conversation. More a generalization that this team has NO guys that consistently make winning plays in crunch time.

That includes Miles, but normally you're looking at your best players/team leaders. I'm looking squarely at Jaylin Hunter, AJ Clayton and Shereef Mitchell.


We've had this problem for a long time. Think back to the MAC semis against a very good Kent team during the Saul era. We had the ball with 11 or so seconds on the clock and the future Michigan benchwarmer forced a bad shot with plenty of time remaining.
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M.D.W.S.T
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 25 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 2/19/2024 11:10:06 AM 
Flabbergasted we've lost 11 straight to Toledo.
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spongeBOB CATpants
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 25 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 2/19/2024 11:27:32 AM 
Andrew Ruck wrote:


The Boals technical was stupid and ultimately hurt us big time. It wasn't even close to a foul or anything to get that upset over. I have said it before and I will say it again, I do not like Boals overall approach and demeanor to the officials. His face and body language is constantly whiney towards them, which only makes them dismiss you when you have a legitimate gripe. He needs to pick his spots more. And worse than all that, it can cultivate an environment on the team of victim players always looking for fouls that never commit fouls themselves.



I agree with this take, Boals seems to have a bad "feel" for when to let the refs have it. There has been times where I felt this rubbed off on the team and they also started giving too much attention to the refs as well.
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