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Topic:  RE: Looks like Christmas is coming sooner for a lot of you...

Topic:  RE: Looks like Christmas is coming sooner for a lot of you...
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Campus Flow
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
Post Count: 4,952

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  Message Not Read  RE: Looks like Christmas is coming sooner for a lot of you...
   Posted: 8/2/2013 11:53:58 PM 
A complete bowl would take Peden to about 40,000. Upperdecks on both sidelines to 50,000. Make the whole stadium design look NFL caliber. A facility like that will fill and be adequate to wherever the conference journey takes us. 30-40 million should be enough. It doesn't have to have a ton of suites attached to it like Cincinnati.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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OUPride
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Post Count: 562

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  Message Not Read  RE: Looks like Christmas is coming sooner for a lot of you...
   Posted: 8/3/2013 12:09:18 AM 
The Optimist wrote:
OUPride wrote:
 All this has happened before and will happen again!

The problem time after time and administration after administration is tahat OHIO substitutes cute catch phrases for real action.  Who remembers "OHIO'S FIRST AND FINEST."   We had it on t-shirts, bumper stickers, window stickers; it was splashed all over Peden....and so on and so on.  What the hell did it ever accomplish?  Did it result in a billion dollar endowment?  Did it result in a ton of 30 ACT freshman matriculating to OUr university?  Hundreds of millions of dollars in research funding?  Did it result in a string of MAC championship teams?

OUR STATE; OUR TEAM.  Sounds great.  Love it.   Lacking any real action and fight by OUr President and Board, it will just merely turn--five years down the road--into another sun-faded sticker on OUr bumpers.



I guess you haven't heard?

Our freshman classes the last couple years have been growing by leaps and bounds....
More kids are applying (DOUBLE the applications this year compared to 4 years ago)
Smarter kids are applying (much higher ACT's, better GPA's)
And MORE of these kids are choosing OHIO as the school they attend. (largest and smartest freshman class for a couple years running now)

Ohio has made the jump.

And yes, it has resulted in a MAC Championship in basketball, the schools first 2 EVER bowl wins and a Sweet 16 showing. McDavis bet big on athletics and won. The board, the president, everyone who made this happen deserves credit. They weren't just talk. They took action.

Pushing the branding is the next phase.

..


The problem is that you're hearing too much of President McDavis' prooganda rather than actually doing the research and finding the true underlying situation.  Yes, applications have increased substantially, but that is ONLY because we adopted the common application.  That jump in raw number of applications has been utterly irrelevent because the actual freshman classes have been utterly stagnant in terms of quality.  Here are the actual university common data sets for the 2006 freshman class and the 2012 freshman class.


Middle 50% ACT score ranges was 21-26 in 2006 and in 2012?  21-26.  On the SAT, we're actually a hair worse than we were in 2006: 980-1200 in 2006 versus 970-1200 six years later.

Nor are we attracting many more high ability students.  In 2006, we had 7% with a 30 or higher.  Last year, it was 9%.  As for low ability students, that hasn't changed either.  In both years, roughly half the freshman class scored a 23 or lower. (53% in 2006; 48% in 2012.)

Class rank is no better.  In 2006, we had 15% in the top tenth and 19% in the bottom half.  Six years later, it was 16% in the top tenth and 19% in the bottom half.

Clearly neither feel good sloganeering nor successful athletic teams are moving the academic profile of Ohio forward. What it will take is real (not feel good soundbite spewing) leadership, solid fundraising and long term faculty recruitment.  There are no quick, easy solutions to those needs, and they certainly won't be found on a bumper sticker or a scoreboard.

Last Edited: 8/3/2013 12:11:01 AM by OUPride
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cbarber357
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Member Since: 9/9/2012
Location: Pickerington, OH
Post Count: 744

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  Message Not Read  RE: Looks like Christmas is coming sooner for a lot of you...
   Posted: 8/3/2013 12:52:09 AM 
hey, I was a freshman last year with a 29 ACT and could have gone to O$U, Cincy, or pretty much anywhere else
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shabamon
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Member Since: 11/17/2006
Location: Cincinnati
Post Count: 6,137

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Looks like Christmas is coming sooner for a lot of you...
   Posted: 8/3/2013 2:51:47 AM 
OUPride wrote:
The Optimist wrote:
OUPride wrote:
 All this has happened before and will happen again!

The problem time after time and administration after administration is tahat OHIO substitutes cute catch phrases for real action.  Who remembers "OHIO'S FIRST AND FINEST."   We had it on t-shirts, bumper stickers, window stickers; it was splashed all over Peden....and so on and so on.  What the hell did it ever accomplish?  Did it result in a billion dollar endowment?  Did it result in a ton of 30 ACT freshman matriculating to OUr university?  Hundreds of millions of dollars in research funding?  Did it result in a string of MAC championship teams?

OUR STATE; OUR TEAM.  Sounds great.  Love it.   Lacking any real action and fight by OUr President and Board, it will just merely turn--five years down the road--into another sun-faded sticker on OUr bumpers.


I guess you haven't heard?

Our freshman classes the last couple years have been growing by leaps and bounds....
More kids are applying (DOUBLE the applications this year compared to 4 years ago)
Smarter kids are applying (much higher ACT's, better GPA's)
And MORE of these kids are choosing OHIO as the school they attend. (largest and smartest freshman class for a couple years running now)

Ohio has made the jump.

And yes, it has resulted in a MAC Championship in basketball, the schools first 2 EVER bowl wins and a Sweet 16 showing. McDavis bet big on athletics and won. The board, the president, everyone who made this happen deserves credit. They weren't just talk. They took action.

Pushing the branding is the next phase.

..


The problem is that you're hearing too much of President McDavis' prooganda rather than actually doing the research and finding the true underlying situation.  Yes, applications have increased substantially, but that is ONLY because we adopted the common application.  That jump in raw number of applications has been utterly irrelevent because the actual freshman classes have been utterly stagnant in terms of quality.  Here are the actual university common data sets for the 2006 freshman class and the 2012 freshman class.


Middle 50% ACT score ranges was 21-26 in 2006 and in 2012?  21-26.  On the SAT, we're actually a hair worse than we were in 2006: 980-1200 in 2006 versus 970-1200 six years later.

Nor are we attracting many more high ability students.  In 2006, we had 7% with a 30 or higher.  Last year, it was 9%.  As for low ability students, that hasn't changed either.  In both years, roughly half the freshman class scored a 23 or lower. (53% in 2006; 48% in 2012.)

Class rank is no better.  In 2006, we had 15% in the top tenth and 19% in the bottom half.  Six years later, it was 16% in the top tenth and 19% in the bottom half.

Clearly neither feel good sloganeering nor successful athletic teams are moving the academic profile of Ohio forward. What it will take is real (not feel good soundbite spewing) leadership, solid fundraising and long term faculty recruitment.  There are no quick, easy solutions to those needs, and they certainly won't be found on a bumper sticker or a scoreboard.


We are not on the common application.
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Alan Swank
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Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,025

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  Message Not Read  RE: Looks like Christmas is coming sooner for a lot of you...
   Posted: 8/3/2013 9:01:29 AM 
That's true, we are not a common application school.  After looking at the list of over 500 schools that are, I wonder why not.

https://www.commonapp.org/Login#!PublicPages/AllMembers

Last Edited: 8/3/2013 9:01:52 AM by Alan Swank
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C Money
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Member Since: 8/28/2010
Post Count: 3,420

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  Message Not Read  RE: Looks like Christmas is coming sooner for a lot of you...
   Posted: 8/3/2013 9:14:05 AM 
I'm posting this because it's relevant to the topic and, in the discussion of the potential for a playoff among the non-BCS teams, what team is mentioned as playing in the national semi final that people would watch? OHIO.

The NFL/AFL analogy is interesting...not entirely accurate, but interesting.
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The Optimist
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Member Since: 3/16/2007
Location: CLE
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  Message Not Read  RE: Looks like Christmas is coming sooner for a lot of you...
   Posted: 8/3/2013 9:54:00 AM 
Here are the freshman application numbers I've seen, FWIW.

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2012/01/20/ohio-u--is-growing-in-popularity.html
http://woub.org/2013/04/01/ohio-university-admission-applications-record-high

Here are the applications numbers I found.
2009: 7,016
2010: 10,747
2011: 10,868
2012: 14,615
2013: 20,000+

I've seen crazier things happen.

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colobobcat66
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Member Since: 9/1/2006
Location: Watching the bobcats run outside my window., CO
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  Message Not Read  RE: Looks like Christmas is coming sooner for a lot of you...
   Posted: 8/3/2013 10:00:30 AM 
OUPride wrote:
The Optimist wrote:
OUPride wrote:
All this has happened before and will happen again!

The problem time after time and administration after administration is tahat OHIO substitutes cute catch phrases for real action. Who remembers "OHIO'S FIRST AND FINEST." We had it on t-shirts, bumper stickers, window stickers; it was splashed all over Peden....and so on and so on. What the hell did it ever accomplish? Did it result in a billion dollar endowment? Did it result in a ton of 30 ACT freshman matriculating to OUr university? Hundreds of millions of dollars in research funding? Did it result in a string of MAC championship teams?

OUR STATE; OUR TEAM. Sounds great. Love it. Lacking any real action and fight by OUr President and Board, it will just merely turn--five years down the road--into another sun-faded sticker on OUr bumpers.



I guess you haven't heard?

Our freshman classes the last couple years have been growing by leaps and bounds....
More kids are applying (DOUBLE the applications this year compared to 4 years ago)
Smarter kids are applying (much higher ACT's, better GPA's)
And MORE of these kids are choosing OHIO as the school they attend. (largest and smartest freshman class for a couple years running now)

Ohio has made the jump.

And yes, it has resulted in a MAC Championship in basketball, the schools first 2 EVER bowl wins and a Sweet 16 showing. McDavis bet big on athletics and won. The board, the president, everyone who made this happen deserves credit. They weren't just talk. They took action.

Pushing the branding is the next phase.

..


The problem is that you're hearing too much of President McDavis' prooganda rather than actually doing the research and finding the true underlying situation. Yes, applications have increased substantially, but that is ONLY because we adopted the common application. That jump in raw number of applications has been utterly irrelevent because the actual freshman classes have been utterly stagnant in terms of quality. Here are the actual university common data sets for the 2006 freshman class and the 2012 freshman class.


Middle 50% ACT score ranges was 21-26 in 2006 and in 2012? 21-26. On the SAT, we're actually a hair worse than we were in 2006: 980-1200 in 2006 versus 970-1200 six years later.

Nor are we attracting many more high ability students. In 2006, we had 7% with a 30 or higher. Last year, it was 9%. As for low ability students, that hasn't changed either. In both years, roughly half the freshman class scored a 23 or lower. (53% in 2006; 48% in 2012.)

Class rank is no better. In 2006, we had 15% in the top tenth and 19% in the bottom half. Six years later, it was 16% in the top tenth and 19% in the bottom half.

Clearly neither feel good sloganeering nor successful athletic teams are moving the academic profile of Ohio forward. What it will take is real (not feel good soundbite spewing) leadership, solid fundraising and long term faculty recruitment. There are no quick, easy solutions to those needs, and they certainly won't be found on a bumper sticker or a scoreboard.
Since your main premise about the common application is apparently wrong, I would also say that your use of other statistics to back up your argument is not real compelling either. Only 1 stat is actually lower, the rest are the same or have improved-albeit not by huge percentages. Ax to grind-apparently so.

Last Edited: 8/3/2013 10:21:29 AM by colobobcat66
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Campus Flow
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
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  Message Not Read  RE: Looks like Christmas is coming sooner for a lot of you...
   Posted: 8/3/2013 10:46:44 AM 
OUPride wrote:
The Optimist wrote:
OUPride wrote:
 All this has happened before and will happen again!

The problem time after time and administration after administration is tahat OHIO substitutes cute catch phrases for real action.  Who remembers "OHIO'S FIRST AND FINEST."   We had it on t-shirts, bumper stickers, window stickers; it was splashed all over Peden....and so on and so on.  What the hell did it ever accomplish?  Did it result in a billion dollar endowment?  Did it result in a ton of 30 ACT freshman matriculating to OUr university?  Hundreds of millions of dollars in research funding?  Did it result in a string of MAC championship teams?

OUR STATE; OUR TEAM.  Sounds great.  Love it.   Lacking any real action and fight by OUr President and Board, it will just merely turn--five years down the road--into another sun-faded sticker on OUr bumpers.



I guess you haven't heard?

Our freshman classes the last couple years have been growing by leaps and bounds....
More kids are applying (DOUBLE the applications this year compared to 4 years ago)
Smarter kids are applying (much higher ACT's, better GPA's)
And MORE of these kids are choosing OHIO as the school they attend. (largest and smartest freshman class for a couple years running now)

Ohio has made the jump.

And yes, it has resulted in a MAC Championship in basketball, the schools first 2 EVER bowl wins and a Sweet 16 showing. McDavis bet big on athletics and won. The board, the president, everyone who made this happen deserves credit. They weren't just talk. They took action.

Pushing the branding is the next phase.

..


The problem is that you're hearing too much of President McDavis' prooganda rather than actually doing the research and finding the true underlying situation.  Yes, applications have increased substantially, but that is ONLY because we adopted the common application.  That jump in raw number of applications has been utterly irrelevent because the actual freshman classes have been utterly stagnant in terms of quality.  Here are the actual university common data sets for the 2006 freshman class and the 2012 freshman class.


Middle 50% ACT score ranges was 21-26 in 2006 and in 2012?  21-26.  On the SAT, we're actually a hair worse than we were in 2006: 980-1200 in 2006 versus 970-1200 six years later.

Nor are we attracting many more high ability students.  In 2006, we had 7% with a 30 or higher.  Last year, it was 9%.  As for low ability students, that hasn't changed either.  In both years, roughly half the freshman class scored a 23 or lower. (53% in 2006; 48% in 2012.)

Class rank is no better.  In 2006, we had 15% in the top tenth and 19% in the bottom half.  Six years later, it was 16% in the top tenth and 19% in the bottom half.

Clearly neither feel good sloganeering nor successful athletic teams are moving the academic profile of Ohio forward. What it will take is real (not feel good soundbite spewing) leadership, solid fundraising and long term faculty recruitment.  There are no quick, easy solutions to those needs, and they certainly won't be found on a bumper sticker or a scoreboard.


The way it works is if the ACT is 23 or lower for those candidates they are looking at GPA's 3.5 and higher. They'll take someone with a 21 if they have a 3.9 GPA in High School. You are forgetting here that the freshman class accepted is bigger than 2006. The answer to better stats is scholarship dollars and the amount we have to offer is going up. That is how all the BCS level state schools have improved their profile. The schools is pretty desirable in Ohio compared to other state institutions while be located in the dreaded small market of Athens. Interest in the school is statewide and it will carry over to athletics.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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OUPride
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Member Since: 9/21/2010
Post Count: 562

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Looks like Christmas is coming sooner for a lot of you...
   Posted: 8/3/2013 11:26:14 AM 
colobobcat66 wrote:
OUPride wrote:
The Optimist wrote:
OUPride wrote:
All this has happened before and will happen again!

The problem time after time and administration after administration is tahat OHIO substitutes cute catch phrases for real action. Who remembers "OHIO'S FIRST AND FINEST." We had it on t-shirts, bumper stickers, window stickers; it was splashed all over Peden....and so on and so on. What the hell did it ever accomplish? Did it result in a billion dollar endowment? Did it result in a ton of 30 ACT freshman matriculating to OUr university? Hundreds of millions of dollars in research funding? Did it result in a string of MAC championship teams?

OUR STATE; OUR TEAM. Sounds great. Love it. Lacking any real action and fight by OUr President and Board, it will just merely turn--five years down the road--into another sun-faded sticker on OUr bumpers.



I guess you haven't heard?

Our freshman classes the last couple years have been growing by leaps and bounds....
More kids are applying (DOUBLE the applications this year compared to 4 years ago)
Smarter kids are applying (much higher ACT's, better GPA's)
And MORE of these kids are choosing OHIO as the school they attend. (largest and smartest freshman class for a couple years running now)

Ohio has made the jump.

And yes, it has resulted in a MAC Championship in basketball, the schools first 2 EVER bowl wins and a Sweet 16 showing. McDavis bet big on athletics and won. The board, the president, everyone who made this happen deserves credit. They weren't just talk. They took action.

Pushing the branding is the next phase.

..


The problem is that you're hearing too much of President McDavis' prooganda rather than actually doing the research and finding the true underlying situation. Yes, applications have increased substantially, but that is ONLY because we adopted the common application. That jump in raw number of applications has been utterly irrelevent because the actual freshman classes have been utterly stagnant in terms of quality. Here are the actual university common data sets for the 2006 freshman class and the 2012 freshman class.


Middle 50% ACT score ranges was 21-26 in 2006 and in 2012? 21-26. On the SAT, we're actually a hair worse than we were in 2006: 980-1200 in 2006 versus 970-1200 six years later.

Nor are we attracting many more high ability students. In 2006, we had 7% with a 30 or higher. Last year, it was 9%. As for low ability students, that hasn't changed either. In both years, roughly half the freshman class scored a 23 or lower. (53% in 2006; 48% in 2012.)

Class rank is no better. In 2006, we had 15% in the top tenth and 19% in the bottom half. Six years later, it was 16% in the top tenth and 19% in the bottom half.

Clearly neither feel good sloganeering nor successful athletic teams are moving the academic profile of Ohio forward. What it will take is real (not feel good soundbite spewing) leadership, solid fundraising and long term faculty recruitment. There are no quick, easy solutions to those needs, and they certainly won't be found on a bumper sticker or a scoreboard.
Since your main premise about the common application is apparently wrong, I would also say that your use of other statistics to back up your argument is not real compelling either. Only 1 stat is actually lower, the rest are the same or have improved-albeit not by huge percentages. Ax to grind-apparently so.


If you will actually check the links those are the freshman class data compiled and maintained by Ohio University.  It's on the official university website for anyone to actually investigate and form their own conclusions.  The numbers above are drawn from the university's own published statistics.

While I may have been mistaken about being on the common app, it really doesn't matter in the long run because any increase in applications is clearly not driving higher quality students--which was the main contention of Optimist and others who seem to think that winning sports teams and clever catch phrases will increase the academic profile of the university.

I don't have an ax to grind, but some here apparently have putten McDavis on such a do-no-wrong pedestal solely because he is a big booster athletics.  That's fine, if that's what is most important to you, but don't spew this fantasy that it is somehow increasing Ohio's academic profile.  In those six years, by how many millions of dollars has the university subsidized the athletic program?  And the academic results have been negligible.  If the ultimate goal is to have winning football and men's basketball teams, then money well spent.  If the ultimate goal is to make Ohio a better university, then it appears to be the worst investment since mortgage backed derivative funds.  It would seem to me that all those millions of dollars every year would have done a heck of a lot more to move Ohio forward were they devoted to scholarships for all those 30+ ACT students who--while they might be applying to Ohio as a safety school--are still clearly choosing to attend elsewhere.

Honestly, if I'm an administrator at Fiami or O$U, I would want McDavis to stay at Ohio for as long as possible.

Last Edited: 8/3/2013 11:45:04 AM by OUPride
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Post Count: 3,294

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  Message Not Read  RE: Looks like Christmas is coming sooner for a lot of you...
   Posted: 8/3/2013 11:47:22 AM 
Uncle Wes wrote:
A complete bowl would take Peden to about 40,000. Upperdecks on both sidelines to 50,000. Make the whole stadium design look NFL caliber. A facility like that will fill and be adequate to wherever the conference journey takes us. 30-40 million should be enough. It doesn't have to have a ton of suites attached to it like Cincinnati.


A 40,000 or 50,000 seat Peden would result in a situation very similar to the Convo; a facility that's simply too big for us, and results in our very good attendance numbers still failing to fill up our building. Averaging 6,100 fans for basketball is a very, very good number that puts us on par with Gonzaga, Auburn, Penn State and Butler. The problem is that we have a giant arena that always feels half empty. Peden at 50,000 would have the exact same impact. Our highest attendance ever was just under 25,000--and it's not like there were 25,000 folks who got turned away at the door. Even if we saw an increase of 10,000 people, which I think is hugely ambitious, there'd still be 15,000 empty seats. Financially, we can't afford to invest that much in additions to Peden and nobody has laid out a reasonable plan as to how you attract an additional 15 or 25 thousand people to Athens. It's a nice dream, but I just don't see how it's realistic. Even Akron, who is located in a much larger population center, built their stadium to seat 30,000. Any expansion should be looking to add 5-10 thousand seats and no more. 

Last Edited: 8/3/2013 12:35:10 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Robert Fox
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Location: Knoxville, TN
Post Count: 2,039

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Looks like Christmas is coming sooner for a lot of you...
   Posted: 8/3/2013 11:49:16 AM 
OUPride wrote:
colobobcat66 wrote:
OUPride wrote:
The Optimist wrote:
OUPride wrote:
All this has happened before and will happen again!

The problem time after time and administration after administration is tahat OHIO substitutes cute catch phrases for real action. Who remembers "OHIO'S FIRST AND FINEST." We had it on t-shirts, bumper stickers, window stickers; it was splashed all over Peden....and so on and so on. What the hell did it ever accomplish? Did it result in a billion dollar endowment? Did it result in a ton of 30 ACT freshman matriculating to OUr university? Hundreds of millions of dollars in research funding? Did it result in a string of MAC championship teams?

OUR STATE; OUR TEAM. Sounds great. Love it. Lacking any real action and fight by OUr President and Board, it will just merely turn--five years down the road--into another sun-faded sticker on OUr bumpers.



I guess you haven't heard?

Our freshman classes the last couple years have been growing by leaps and bounds....
More kids are applying (DOUBLE the applications this year compared to 4 years ago)
Smarter kids are applying (much higher ACT's, better GPA's)
And MORE of these kids are choosing OHIO as the school they attend. (largest and smartest freshman class for a couple years running now)

Ohio has made the jump.

And yes, it has resulted in a MAC Championship in basketball, the schools first 2 EVER bowl wins and a Sweet 16 showing. McDavis bet big on athletics and won. The board, the president, everyone who made this happen deserves credit. They weren't just talk. They took action.

Pushing the branding is the next phase.

..


The problem is that you're hearing too much of President McDavis' prooganda rather than actually doing the research and finding the true underlying situation. Yes, applications have increased substantially, but that is ONLY because we adopted the common application. That jump in raw number of applications has been utterly irrelevent because the actual freshman classes have been utterly stagnant in terms of quality. Here are the actual university common data sets for the 2006 freshman class and the 2012 freshman class.


Middle 50% ACT score ranges was 21-26 in 2006 and in 2012? 21-26. On the SAT, we're actually a hair worse than we were in 2006: 980-1200 in 2006 versus 970-1200 six years later.

Nor are we attracting many more high ability students. In 2006, we had 7% with a 30 or higher. Last year, it was 9%. As for low ability students, that hasn't changed either. In both years, roughly half the freshman class scored a 23 or lower. (53% in 2006; 48% in 2012.)

Class rank is no better. In 2006, we had 15% in the top tenth and 19% in the bottom half. Six years later, it was 16% in the top tenth and 19% in the bottom half.

Clearly neither feel good sloganeering nor successful athletic teams are moving the academic profile of Ohio forward. What it will take is real (not feel good soundbite spewing) leadership, solid fundraising and long term faculty recruitment. There are no quick, easy solutions to those needs, and they certainly won't be found on a bumper sticker or a scoreboard.
Since your main premise about the common application is apparently wrong, I would also say that your use of other statistics to back up your argument is not real compelling either. Only 1 stat is actually lower, the rest are the same or have improved-albeit not by huge percentages. Ax to grind-apparently so.


If you will actually check the links those are the freshman class data compiled and maintained by Ohio University.  It's on the official university website for anyone to actually investigate and form their own conclusions.  The numbers above are drawn from the university's own published statistics.

While I may have been mistaken about being on the common app, it really doesn't matter in the long run because any increase in applications is clearly not driving higher quality students--which was the main contention of Optimist and others who seem to think that winning sports teams and clever catch phrases will increase the academic profile of the university.

I don't have an ax to grind, but some here apparently have putten McDavis on such a do-no-wrong pedestal solely because he is a big booster athletics.  That's fine, if that's what is most important to you, but don't spew this fantasy that it is somehow increasing Ohio's academic profile.  In those six years, by how many millions of dollars has the university subsidized the athletic program?  And the academic results have been negligible.  If the ultimate goal is to have winning football and men's basketball teams, then money well spent.  If the ultimate goal is to make Ohio a better university, then it appears to be the worst investment since mortgage backed derivative funds.  It would seem to me that all those millions of dollars every year would have done a heck of a lot more to move Ohio forward were they devoted to scholarships for all those 30+ ACT students who--while they might be applying to Ohio as a safety school--are still clearly choosing to attend elsewhere.

Honestly, if I'm an administrator at Fiami or O$U, I would want McDavis to stay at Ohio for as long as possible.


Then by your premise, any expenditure on athletics is a waste. Is that your contention?
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BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 9,488

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  Message Not Read  RE: Looks like Christmas is coming sooner for a lot of you...
   Posted: 8/3/2013 12:01:17 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Uncle Wes wrote:
A complete bowl would take Peden to about 40,000. Upperdecks on both sidelines to 50,000. Make the whole stadium design look NFL caliber. A facility like that will fill and be adequate to wherever the conference journey takes us. 30-40 million should be enough. It doesn't have to have a ton of suites attached to it like Cincinnati.


A 40,000 or 50,000 seat Peden would result in a situation very similar to the Convo; a facility that's simply too big for us, and results in our very good attendance numbers still failing to fill up our building. Averaging 6,100 fans for basketball is a very, very good number that puts us on par with Gonzaga, Auburn, Penn State and Butler. The problem is that we have a giant arena that always feels half empty. Peden at 50,000 would have the exact same impact. Our highest attendance ever was just under 25,000--and it's not like there were 25,000 folks who got turned away at the door. Even if we saw an increase of 10,000 people, which I think is hugely ambitious, there'd still be 15,000 empty seats. Financially, we can't afford to invest that much in additions to Peden and nobody has laid out a reasonable plan as to how you attract an additional 15 or 25 thousand people to Athens. It's a nice dream, but I just don't see how it's realistic. Even Akron, who is located in a much larger population center, built there stadium to seat 30,000. Any expansion should be looking to add 5-10 thousand seats and no more.


I agree
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OUPride
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Member Since: 9/21/2010
Post Count: 562

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  Message Not Read  RE: Looks like Christmas is coming sooner for a lot of you...
   Posted: 8/3/2013 12:28:51 PM 
Robert Fox wrote:
OUPride wrote:
colobobcat66 wrote:
OUPride wrote:
The Optimist wrote:
OUPride wrote:
All this has happened before and will happen again!

The problem time after time and administration after administration is tahat OHIO substitutes cute catch phrases for real action. Who remembers "OHIO'S FIRST AND FINEST." We had it on t-shirts, bumper stickers, window stickers; it was splashed all over Peden....and so on and so on. What the hell did it ever accomplish? Did it result in a billion dollar endowment? Did it result in a ton of 30 ACT freshman matriculating to OUr university? Hundreds of millions of dollars in research funding? Did it result in a string of MAC championship teams?

OUR STATE; OUR TEAM. Sounds great. Love it. Lacking any real action and fight by OUr President and Board, it will just merely turn--five years down the road--into another sun-faded sticker on OUr bumpers.



I guess you haven't heard?

Our freshman classes the last couple years have been growing by leaps and bounds....
More kids are applying (DOUBLE the applications this year compared to 4 years ago)
Smarter kids are applying (much higher ACT's, better GPA's)
And MORE of these kids are choosing OHIO as the school they attend. (largest and smartest freshman class for a couple years running now)

Ohio has made the jump.

And yes, it has resulted in a MAC Championship in basketball, the schools first 2 EVER bowl wins and a Sweet 16 showing. McDavis bet big on athletics and won. The board, the president, everyone who made this happen deserves credit. They weren't just talk. They took action.

Pushing the branding is the next phase.

..


The problem is that you're hearing too much of President McDavis' prooganda rather than actually doing the research and finding the true underlying situation. Yes, applications have increased substantially, but that is ONLY because we adopted the common application. That jump in raw number of applications has been utterly irrelevent because the actual freshman classes have been utterly stagnant in terms of quality. Here are the actual university common data sets for the 2006 freshman class and the 2012 freshman class.


Middle 50% ACT score ranges was 21-26 in 2006 and in 2012? 21-26. On the SAT, we're actually a hair worse than we were in 2006: 980-1200 in 2006 versus 970-1200 six years later.

Nor are we attracting many more high ability students. In 2006, we had 7% with a 30 or higher. Last year, it was 9%. As for low ability students, that hasn't changed either. In both years, roughly half the freshman class scored a 23 or lower. (53% in 2006; 48% in 2012.)

Class rank is no better. In 2006, we had 15% in the top tenth and 19% in the bottom half. Six years later, it was 16% in the top tenth and 19% in the bottom half.

Clearly neither feel good sloganeering nor successful athletic teams are moving the academic profile of Ohio forward. What it will take is real (not feel good soundbite spewing) leadership, solid fundraising and long term faculty recruitment. There are no quick, easy solutions to those needs, and they certainly won't be found on a bumper sticker or a scoreboard.
Since your main premise about the common application is apparently wrong, I would also say that your use of other statistics to back up your argument is not real compelling either. Only 1 stat is actually lower, the rest are the same or have improved-albeit not by huge percentages. Ax to grind-apparently so.


If you will actually check the links those are the freshman class data compiled and maintained by Ohio University.  It's on the official university website for anyone to actually investigate and form their own conclusions.  The numbers above are drawn from the university's own published statistics.

While I may have been mistaken about being on the common app, it really doesn't matter in the long run because any increase in applications is clearly not driving higher quality students--which was the main contention of Optimist and others who seem to think that winning sports teams and clever catch phrases will increase the academic profile of the university.

I don't have an ax to grind, but some here apparently have putten McDavis on such a do-no-wrong pedestal solely because he is a big booster athletics.  That's fine, if that's what is most important to you, but don't spew this fantasy that it is somehow increasing Ohio's academic profile.  In those six years, by how many millions of dollars has the university subsidized the athletic program?  And the academic results have been negligible.  If the ultimate goal is to have winning football and men's basketball teams, then money well spent.  If the ultimate goal is to make Ohio a better university, then it appears to be the worst investment since mortgage backed derivative funds.  It would seem to me that all those millions of dollars every year would have done a heck of a lot more to move Ohio forward were they devoted to scholarships for all those 30+ ACT students who--while they might be applying to Ohio as a safety school--are still clearly choosing to attend elsewhere.

Honestly, if I'm an administrator at Fiami or O$U, I would want McDavis to stay at Ohio for as long as possible.


Then by your premise, any expenditure on athletics is a waste. Is that your contention?


No.  I enjoy athletics and want to see competitive programs.  I would answer your question in two parts.  First, it's not simply black and white regarding athletic expenditures or more properly subsidies because if the athletic department were self-sustaining, there would be no need for this debate.  It's a matter of degrees and marginal returns.  I understand needing to subsidize the athletic department, but it's a matter of what is a wise and appropriate level of subsidy.  We're pouring millions of dollars into athletics right now.  Is every dollar of that subsidy money well spent?  My argument is that we've reached a point of diminishing returns and some of that money could be better utilized elsewhere such as merit aid, faculty recruitment and so on.

Secondly, is the question of the impact that winning football and basketball are having on the overall university.  Here is where I differ greatly from some (most) on here.  Athletics is not moving our university forward.  In fact, I would argue that at the current absurd level of subsidy, it is draining money away from other much more important needs.  It's nice window dressing, but that is all, and that is more than born out when looking at our freshman class profiles or national rankings, which belies the contention of those who say that there is some kind of academic benefit to the athletic subsidy because I'm not seeing it.  If all that matters to some is that sports teams win in order to show up Fiami and o$u, that's fine.  Just be honest with yourself about that being the most important thing rather than spewing this b.s. that it's somehow necessary to make Ohio a better university.

And just to put things into perspective regarding President McDavis, he's the Ohio University President who oversaw Ohio slip to the fourth most selective public university in Ohio because Cincinnati has pretty definitively passed us by under his watch.
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UpSan Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Looks like Christmas is coming sooner for a lot of you...
   Posted: 8/3/2013 12:41:09 PM 
As to the quality of students at Ohio University that is being debated, I think the truth is somewhere in between. I do know someone who deals with certain admissions to OU and I do think the application numbers are not quite accurate. No doubt, applications are up, but probably not as much as the numbers indicate.

However, I do think Ohio University is getting more quality students. The numbers presented generally show a very tiny increase in the quality of students. However, one has to consider that since more and more students are being accepted (freshman class sizes are getting better) that there are more really good students and more not as good students enrolling. If OU kept its classes the same size, it could eliminate the lower students and bring up the average, but the university has chosen to expand in size instead.

Some might thing that all universities having increasing enrollments, but it's not so. Bowling Green has been pretty stagnant with some years of decline and by some reports a total decline in the past five years. Miami and Cleveland State have had minimal increases to enrollment.
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A-townBound
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  Message Not Read  RE: Looks like Christmas is coming sooner for a lot of you...
   Posted: 8/3/2013 1:15:42 PM 
These people came out....


Bleed Green and GO OHIO!!
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colobobcat66
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  Message Not Read  RE: Looks like Christmas is coming sooner for a lot of you...
   Posted: 8/3/2013 1:50:02 PM 
OUPride wrote:
colobobcat66 wrote:
OUPride wrote:
The Optimist wrote:
OUPride wrote:
All this has happened before and will happen again!

The problem time after time and administration after administration is tahat OHIO substitutes cute catch phrases for real action. Who remembers "OHIO'S FIRST AND FINEST." We had it on t-shirts, bumper stickers, window stickers; it was splashed all over Peden....and so on and so on. What the hell did it ever accomplish? Did it result in a billion dollar endowment? Did it result in a ton of 30 ACT freshman matriculating to OUr university? Hundreds of millions of dollars in research funding? Did it result in a string of MAC championship teams?

OUR STATE; OUR TEAM. Sounds great. Love it. Lacking any real action and fight by OUr President and Board, it will just merely turn--five years down the road--into another sun-faded sticker on OUr bumpers.



I guess you haven't heard?

Our freshman classes the last couple years have been growing by leaps and bounds....
More kids are applying (DOUBLE the applications this year compared to 4 years ago)
Smarter kids are applying (much higher ACT's, better GPA's)
And MORE of these kids are choosing OHIO as the school they attend. (largest and smartest freshman class for a couple years running now)

Ohio has made the jump.

And yes, it has resulted in a MAC Championship in basketball, the schools first 2 EVER bowl wins and a Sweet 16 showing. McDavis bet big on athletics and won. The board, the president, everyone who made this happen deserves credit. They weren't just talk. They took action.

Pushing the branding is the next phase.

..


The problem is that you're hearing too much of President McDavis' prooganda rather than actually doing the research and finding the true underlying situation. Yes, applications have increased substantially, but that is ONLY because we adopted the common application. That jump in raw number of applications has been utterly irrelevent because the actual freshman classes have been utterly stagnant in terms of quality. Here are the actual university common data sets for the 2006 freshman class and the 2012 freshman class.


Middle 50% ACT score ranges was 21-26 in 2006 and in 2012? 21-26. On the SAT, we're actually a hair worse than we were in 2006: 980-1200 in 2006 versus 970-1200 six years later.

Nor are we attracting many more high ability students. In 2006, we had 7% with a 30 or higher. Last year, it was 9%. As for low ability students, that hasn't changed either. In both years, roughly half the freshman class scored a 23 or lower. (53% in 2006; 48% in 2012.)

Class rank is no better. In 2006, we had 15% in the top tenth and 19% in the bottom half. Six years later, it was 16% in the top tenth and 19% in the bottom half.

Clearly neither feel good sloganeering nor successful athletic teams are moving the academic profile of Ohio forward. What it will take is real (not feel good soundbite spewing) leadership, solid fundraising and long term faculty recruitment. There are no quick, easy solutions to those needs, and they certainly won't be found on a bumper sticker or a scoreboard.
Since your main premise about the common application is apparently wrong, I would also say that your use of other statistics to back up your argument is not real compelling either. Only 1 stat is actually lower, the rest are the same or have improved-albeit not by huge percentages. Ax to grind-apparently so.


If you will actually check the links those are the freshman class data compiled and maintained by Ohio University. It's on the official university website for anyone to actually investigate and form their own conclusions. The numbers above are drawn from the university's own published statistics.

While I may have been mistaken about being on the common app, it really doesn't matter in the long run because any increase in applications is clearly not driving higher quality students--which was the main contention of Optimist and others who seem to think that winning sports teams and clever catch phrases will increase the academic profile of the university.

I don't have an ax to grind, but some here apparently have putten McDavis on such a do-no-wrong pedestal solely because he is a big booster athletics. That's fine, if that's what is most important to you, but don't spew this fantasy that it is somehow increasing Ohio's academic profile. In those six years, by how many millions of dollars has the university subsidized the athletic program? And the academic results have been negligible. If the ultimate goal is to have winning football and men's basketball teams, then money well spent. If the ultimate goal is to make Ohio a better university, then it appears to be the worst investment since mortgage backed derivative funds. It would seem to me that all those millions of dollars every year would have done a heck of a lot more to move Ohio forward were they devoted to scholarships for all those 30+ ACT students who--while they might be applying to Ohio as a safety school--are still clearly choosing to attend elsewhere.

Honestly, if I'm an administrator at Fiami or O$U, I would want McDavis to stay at Ohio for as long as possible.
man, how can you say that it is "clearly not driving higher quality students" when all the stats except 1 show an improvement or are the same. You are being dishonest when you say there is no statistical improvement. Now, everyone may want more of an increase in quality, but it's not declining and it's not staying the same so it must be better. You have an ax to grind and nothing you have been saying disproves it. I love it when somebody goes off like you do and bases your whole argument on a falsehood and when disproven , says oh that doesn't matter. No credibility at all.
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OUPride
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Member Since: 9/21/2010
Post Count: 562

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  Message Not Read  RE: Looks like Christmas is coming sooner for a lot of you...
   Posted: 8/3/2013 2:07:59 PM 
colobobcat66 wrote:
OUPride wrote:
colobobcat66 wrote:
OUPride wrote:
The Optimist wrote:
OUPride wrote:
All this has happened before and will happen again!

The problem time after time and administration after administration is tahat OHIO substitutes cute catch phrases for real action. Who remembers "OHIO'S FIRST AND FINEST." We had it on t-shirts, bumper stickers, window stickers; it was splashed all over Peden....and so on and so on. What the hell did it ever accomplish? Did it result in a billion dollar endowment? Did it result in a ton of 30 ACT freshman matriculating to OUr university? Hundreds of millions of dollars in research funding? Did it result in a string of MAC championship teams?

OUR STATE; OUR TEAM. Sounds great. Love it. Lacking any real action and fight by OUr President and Board, it will just merely turn--five years down the road--into another sun-faded sticker on OUr bumpers.



I guess you haven't heard?

Our freshman classes the last couple years have been growing by leaps and bounds....
More kids are applying (DOUBLE the applications this year compared to 4 years ago)
Smarter kids are applying (much higher ACT's, better GPA's)
And MORE of these kids are choosing OHIO as the school they attend. (largest and smartest freshman class for a couple years running now)

Ohio has made the jump.

And yes, it has resulted in a MAC Championship in basketball, the schools first 2 EVER bowl wins and a Sweet 16 showing. McDavis bet big on athletics and won. The board, the president, everyone who made this happen deserves credit. They weren't just talk. They took action.

Pushing the branding is the next phase.

..


The problem is that you're hearing too much of President McDavis' prooganda rather than actually doing the research and finding the true underlying situation. Yes, applications have increased substantially, but that is ONLY because we adopted the common application. That jump in raw number of applications has been utterly irrelevent because the actual freshman classes have been utterly stagnant in terms of quality. Here are the actual university common data sets for the 2006 freshman class and the 2012 freshman class.


Middle 50% ACT score ranges was 21-26 in 2006 and in 2012? 21-26. On the SAT, we're actually a hair worse than we were in 2006: 980-1200 in 2006 versus 970-1200 six years later.

Nor are we attracting many more high ability students. In 2006, we had 7% with a 30 or higher. Last year, it was 9%. As for low ability students, that hasn't changed either. In both years, roughly half the freshman class scored a 23 or lower. (53% in 2006; 48% in 2012.)

Class rank is no better. In 2006, we had 15% in the top tenth and 19% in the bottom half. Six years later, it was 16% in the top tenth and 19% in the bottom half.

Clearly neither feel good sloganeering nor successful athletic teams are moving the academic profile of Ohio forward. What it will take is real (not feel good soundbite spewing) leadership, solid fundraising and long term faculty recruitment. There are no quick, easy solutions to those needs, and they certainly won't be found on a bumper sticker or a scoreboard.
Since your main premise about the common application is apparently wrong, I would also say that your use of other statistics to back up your argument is not real compelling either. Only 1 stat is actually lower, the rest are the same or have improved-albeit not by huge percentages. Ax to grind-apparently so.


If you will actually check the links those are the freshman class data compiled and maintained by Ohio University. It's on the official university website for anyone to actually investigate and form their own conclusions. The numbers above are drawn from the university's own published statistics.

While I may have been mistaken about being on the common app, it really doesn't matter in the long run because any increase in applications is clearly not driving higher quality students--which was the main contention of Optimist and others who seem to think that winning sports teams and clever catch phrases will increase the academic profile of the university.

I don't have an ax to grind, but some here apparently have putten McDavis on such a do-no-wrong pedestal solely because he is a big booster athletics. That's fine, if that's what is most important to you, but don't spew this fantasy that it is somehow increasing Ohio's academic profile. In those six years, by how many millions of dollars has the university subsidized the athletic program? And the academic results have been negligible. If the ultimate goal is to have winning football and men's basketball teams, then money well spent. If the ultimate goal is to make Ohio a better university, then it appears to be the worst investment since mortgage backed derivative funds. It would seem to me that all those millions of dollars every year would have done a heck of a lot more to move Ohio forward were they devoted to scholarships for all those 30+ ACT students who--while they might be applying to Ohio as a safety school--are still clearly choosing to attend elsewhere.

Honestly, if I'm an administrator at Fiami or O$U, I would want McDavis to stay at Ohio for as long as possible.
man, how can you say that it is "clearly not driving higher quality students" when all the stats except 1 show an improvement or are the same. You are being dishonest when you say there is no statistical improvement. Now, everyone may want more of an increase in quality, but it's not declining and it's not staying the same so it must be better. You have an ax to grind and nothing you have been saying disproves it. I love it when somebody goes off like you do and bases your whole argument on a falsehood and when disproven , says oh that doesn't matter. No credibility at all.


First of all, you're assuming a direct causation.  Correlation is not causation!  How do you know that the (small) gain in top students has anything to do with football/basketball success?  What factors or studies do you have that says top students pick a school based on football success?  At the very best, athletic success is driving some increases in applications among average (or even reject) level applicants.  It's not driving any quality gains.  Secondly, even if these small gains are driven 100% by athletic success is that in any way cost effective relative to the millions of dollars per year that the university is funneling into the athletic department versus using the money directly to recruit and give scholarships to these students?

What has been the total athletic subsidy over the last six years?  HINT: it's in the tens of millions of dollars!  And what has it produced?  50 or 60 extra 30+ ACT students.  Maybe 25 extra students from the top tenth of their high school class.  AND THERE IS NO REAL PROOF THAT THOSE SMALL INCREASES EVEN HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH ATHLETICS!

And by the way, our freshman class has actually gotten SMALLER counter to what other people believe.  In 2006, Ohio enrolled 4075 entering freshmen.  In 2012, Ohio enrolled 3884 entering freshman.

Stop listening to McDavis' self-serving propaganda and actually go through the common data sets from the beginning of his tenure to the current one.  Ohio is falling further and further behind osu and miami and has even been overtaken by cincy.  If you find something in there to counter my argument, I'll be happy to listen.
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The Situation
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Location: Columbus, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Looks like Christmas is coming sooner for a lot of you...
   Posted: 8/3/2013 2:51:40 PM 
OUPride wrote:
 AND THERE IS NO REAL PROOF THAT THOSE SMALL INCREASES EVEN HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH ATHLETICS!

Stop listening to McDavis' self-serving propaganda and actually go through the common data sets from the beginning of his tenure to the current one.  Ohio is falling further and further behind osu and miami and has even been overtaken by cincy.  If you find something in there to counter my argument, I'll be happy to listen.


You sure have got a lot of gall OUPride.

How do you explain an increase of 7,000 annual applications from 2011 to 2013? Ohio University is now receiving more than 20,000 applications a year for the first time ever. For our athletics department it was the period with the most national exposure in University history. That huge spike in applications is not some sort of nationwide application inflation. It's OHIO athletics widespread success. 

Maybe I missed some academic accomplishment that's been bringing in the applications in droves? Maybe the kids finally found out about that alumnus that won a Nobel Prize in 2009? If you think it went down some other way, the burden of proof is on you my friend.

MCDAVIS IS THE MAN WITH THE PLAN. 
 

www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/state/ohio-university-admission-applications-top-20000

Last Edited: 8/3/2013 2:55:42 PM by The Situation
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UpSan Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Looks like Christmas is coming sooner for a lot of you...
   Posted: 8/3/2013 3:13:23 PM 
According to the Ohio Board of Regents, which should be completely unbiased statistics, Ohio University (main campus only) has the highest percentage enrollment increase from 2006-11 of any Ohio public main campus aside from Northeast Ohio Medical University and Central State University.

The University of Akron and Kent State University are close behind, but OU has done it while actually slightly improving the average academic profile of its students.

https://www.ohiohighered.org/files/uploads/data/statistical-profiles/enrollment/HC_Enrollment_Report_02-11.pdf

I couldn't get this photo to paste, but the information is right here specifically, instead of going through the PDF document: http://www.wyandotsportshof.org/enrollments.jpg

Last Edited: 8/3/2013 3:17:21 PM by UpSan Bobcat
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Bert Presley
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Location: Where OHIO is winning and Miami is getting whipped, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Looks like Christmas is coming sooner for a lot of you...
   Posted: 8/3/2013 4:37:55 PM 
I am going to go out and say the Stadium's naming rights should be a non-starter. The field I can see, but we are not having a Papa John's or Yum! Center thing here. FAU was in our shoes, they just built their stadium, and already after the sponsor was revealed it was nicknamed Owl-catraz, due to the the fact were involved with correctional facilities. Keep the name Peden Stadium, I can see having (insert corporation here) Field.

I am and forever will be the Wizard of OU.

DocBobcat was my Principal; and is still one cool Cat.

OHIO BOBCATS 2011,2012 MAC EAST FOOTBALL CHAMPIONS
                               2012 Independence Bowl Champions
                               2012 Famous Idaho Potato Bowl Champions
                               2011 MAC Tournament Champions (Field Hockey)
                               2012 MAC Tournament Champions (Mens Basketball)
                               2012 NCAA Tournament Sweet 16 (Mens Basketball)
                            


 
 
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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: Looks like Christmas is coming sooner for a lot of you...
   Posted: 8/3/2013 4:39:45 PM 
OUPride wrote:
colobobcat66 wrote:
OUPride wrote:
colobobcat66 wrote:
OUPride wrote:
The Optimist wrote:
OUPride wrote:
All this has happened before and will happen again!

The problem time after time and administration after administration is tahat OHIO substitutes cute catch phrases for real action. Who remembers "OHIO'S FIRST AND FINEST." We had it on t-shirts, bumper stickers, window stickers; it was splashed all over Peden....and so on and so on. What the hell did it ever accomplish? Did it result in a billion dollar endowment? Did it result in a ton of 30 ACT freshman matriculating to OUr university? Hundreds of millions of dollars in research funding? Did it result in a string of MAC championship teams?

OUR STATE; OUR TEAM. Sounds great. Love it. Lacking any real action and fight by OUr President and Board, it will just merely turn--five years down the road--into another sun-faded sticker on OUr bumpers.



I guess you haven't heard?

Our freshman classes the last couple years have been growing by leaps and bounds....
More kids are applying (DOUBLE the applications this year compared to 4 years ago)
Smarter kids are applying (much higher ACT's, better GPA's)
And MORE of these kids are choosing OHIO as the school they attend. (largest and smartest freshman class for a couple years running now)

Ohio has made the jump.

And yes, it has resulted in a MAC Championship in basketball, the schools first 2 EVER bowl wins and a Sweet 16 showing. McDavis bet big on athletics and won. The board, the president, everyone who made this happen deserves credit. They weren't just talk. They took action.

Pushing the branding is the next phase.

..


The problem is that you're hearing too much of President McDavis' prooganda rather than actually doing the research and finding the true underlying situation. Yes, applications have increased substantially, but that is ONLY because we adopted the common application. That jump in raw number of applications has been utterly irrelevent because the actual freshman classes have been utterly stagnant in terms of quality. Here are the actual university common data sets for the 2006 freshman class and the 2012 freshman class.


Middle 50% ACT score ranges was 21-26 in 2006 and in 2012? 21-26. On the SAT, we're actually a hair worse than we were in 2006: 980-1200 in 2006 versus 970-1200 six years later.

Nor are we attracting many more high ability students. In 2006, we had 7% with a 30 or higher. Last year, it was 9%. As for low ability students, that hasn't changed either. In both years, roughly half the freshman class scored a 23 or lower. (53% in 2006; 48% in 2012.)

Class rank is no better. In 2006, we had 15% in the top tenth and 19% in the bottom half. Six years later, it was 16% in the top tenth and 19% in the bottom half.

Clearly neither feel good sloganeering nor successful athletic teams are moving the academic profile of Ohio forward. What it will take is real (not feel good soundbite spewing) leadership, solid fundraising and long term faculty recruitment. There are no quick, easy solutions to those needs, and they certainly won't be found on a bumper sticker or a scoreboard.
Since your main premise about the common application is apparently wrong, I would also say that your use of other statistics to back up your argument is not real compelling either. Only 1 stat is actually lower, the rest are the same or have improved-albeit not by huge percentages. Ax to grind-apparently so.


If you will actually check the links those are the freshman class data compiled and maintained by Ohio University. It's on the official university website for anyone to actually investigate and form their own conclusions. The numbers above are drawn from the university's own published statistics.

While I may have been mistaken about being on the common app, it really doesn't matter in the long run because any increase in applications is clearly not driving higher quality students--which was the main contention of Optimist and others who seem to think that winning sports teams and clever catch phrases will increase the academic profile of the university.

I don't have an ax to grind, but some here apparently have putten McDavis on such a do-no-wrong pedestal solely because he is a big booster athletics. That's fine, if that's what is most important to you, but don't spew this fantasy that it is somehow increasing Ohio's academic profile. In those six years, by how many millions of dollars has the university subsidized the athletic program? And the academic results have been negligible. If the ultimate goal is to have winning football and men's basketball teams, then money well spent. If the ultimate goal is to make Ohio a better university, then it appears to be the worst investment since mortgage backed derivative funds. It would seem to me that all those millions of dollars every year would have done a heck of a lot more to move Ohio forward were they devoted to scholarships for all those 30+ ACT students who--while they might be applying to Ohio as a safety school--are still clearly choosing to attend elsewhere.

Honestly, if I'm an administrator at Fiami or O$U, I would want McDavis to stay at Ohio for as long as possible.
man, how can you say that it is "clearly not driving higher quality students" when all the stats except 1 show an improvement or are the same. You are being dishonest when you say there is no statistical improvement. Now, everyone may want more of an increase in quality, but it's not declining and it's not staying the same so it must be better. You have an ax to grind and nothing you have been saying disproves it. I love it when somebody goes off like you do and bases your whole argument on a falsehood and when disproven , says oh that doesn't matter. No credibility at all.


First of all, you're assuming a direct causation.  Correlation is not causation!  How do you know that the (small) gain in top students has anything to do with football/basketball success?  What factors or studies do you have that says top students pick a school based on football success?  At the very best, athletic success is driving some increases in applications among average (or even reject) level applicants.  It's not driving any quality gains.  Secondly, even if these small gains are driven 100% by athletic success is that in any way cost effective relative to the millions of dollars per year that the university is funneling into the athletic department versus using the money directly to recruit and give scholarships to these students?

What has been the total athletic subsidy over the last six years?  HINT: it's in the tens of millions of dollars!  And what has it produced?  50 or 60 extra 30+ ACT students.  Maybe 25 extra students from the top tenth of their high school class.  AND THERE IS NO REAL PROOF THAT THOSE SMALL INCREASES EVEN HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH ATHLETICS!

And by the way, our freshman class has actually gotten SMALLER counter to what other people believe.  In 2006, Ohio enrolled 4075 entering freshmen.  In 2012, Ohio enrolled 3884 entering freshman.

Stop listening to McDavis' self-serving propaganda and actually go through the common data sets from the beginning of his tenure to the current one.  Ohio is falling further and further behind osu and miami and has even been overtaken by cincy.  If you find something in there to counter my argument, I'll be happy to listen.


OUPride person, you don't get it.

First, I'm not terribly big on intangible assets being assigned big value, but think about your handle on this board.  Obviously, your very name shows pride in the O H I O.  In that same way, most of us here are no longer at the University but care deeply about O H I O.  We beam with pride when we win or hear good news of O H I O.

That same pride and caring is certainly considered by prospective students.  How do people regard O H I O?  In this day of your social network, don't you think that applicants give some consideration as to how O H I O will look on their permanent record?  

So, while I can't put a specific dollar value on such as foot and basket and volley teams that win, I assure you that there is value.  Your take that success in athletics does not help would seem to not hold much water.

Ask people here if, in the past few years, theyve worn O H I O gear and had people all over the U.S. and internationally ask if they went to school at O H I O.  A lot of those who ask know about O H I O because of foot and basket.




Last Edited: 8/3/2013 4:40:54 PM by Monroe Slavin

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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: Looks like Christmas is coming sooner for a lot of you...
   Posted: 8/3/2013 4:41:14 PM 
Monroe Slavin wrote:
OUPride wrote:
colobobcat66 wrote:
OUPride wrote:
colobobcat66 wrote:
OUPride wrote:
The Optimist wrote:
OUPride wrote:
All this has happened before and will happen again!

The problem time after time and administration after administration is tahat OHIO substitutes cute catch phrases for real action. Who remembers "OHIO'S FIRST AND FINEST." We had it on t-shirts, bumper stickers, window stickers; it was splashed all over Peden....and so on and so on. What the hell did it ever accomplish? Did it result in a billion dollar endowment? Did it result in a ton of 30 ACT freshman matriculating to OUr university? Hundreds of millions of dollars in research funding? Did it result in a string of MAC championship teams?

OUR STATE; OUR TEAM. Sounds great. Love it. Lacking any real action and fight by OUr President and Board, it will just merely turn--five years down the road--into another sun-faded sticker on OUr bumpers.



I guess you haven't heard?

Our freshman classes the last couple years have been growing by leaps and bounds....
More kids are applying (DOUBLE the applications this year compared to 4 years ago)
Smarter kids are applying (much higher ACT's, better GPA's)
And MORE of these kids are choosing OHIO as the school they attend. (largest and smartest freshman class for a couple years running now)

Ohio has made the jump.

And yes, it has resulted in a MAC Championship in basketball, the schools first 2 EVER bowl wins and a Sweet 16 showing. McDavis bet big on athletics and won. The board, the president, everyone who made this happen deserves credit. They weren't just talk. They took action.

Pushing the branding is the next phase.

..


The problem is that you're hearing too much of President McDavis' prooganda rather than actually doing the research and finding the true underlying situation. Yes, applications have increased substantially, but that is ONLY because we adopted the common application. That jump in raw number of applications has been utterly irrelevent because the actual freshman classes have been utterly stagnant in terms of quality. Here are the actual university common data sets for the 2006 freshman class and the 2012 freshman class.


Middle 50% ACT score ranges was 21-26 in 2006 and in 2012? 21-26. On the SAT, we're actually a hair worse than we were in 2006: 980-1200 in 2006 versus 970-1200 six years later.

Nor are we attracting many more high ability students. In 2006, we had 7% with a 30 or higher. Last year, it was 9%. As for low ability students, that hasn't changed either. In both years, roughly half the freshman class scored a 23 or lower. (53% in 2006; 48% in 2012.)

Class rank is no better. In 2006, we had 15% in the top tenth and 19% in the bottom half. Six years later, it was 16% in the top tenth and 19% in the bottom half.

Clearly neither feel good sloganeering nor successful athletic teams are moving the academic profile of Ohio forward. What it will take is real (not feel good soundbite spewing) leadership, solid fundraising and long term faculty recruitment. There are no quick, easy solutions to those needs, and they certainly won't be found on a bumper sticker or a scoreboard.
Since your main premise about the common application is apparently wrong, I would also say that your use of other statistics to back up your argument is not real compelling either. Only 1 stat is actually lower, the rest are the same or have improved-albeit not by huge percentages. Ax to grind-apparently so.


If you will actually check the links those are the freshman class data compiled and maintained by Ohio University. It's on the official university website for anyone to actually investigate and form their own conclusions. The numbers above are drawn from the university's own published statistics.

While I may have been mistaken about being on the common app, it really doesn't matter in the long run because any increase in applications is clearly not driving higher quality students--which was the main contention of Optimist and others who seem to think that winning sports teams and clever catch phrases will increase the academic profile of the university.

I don't have an ax to grind, but some here apparently have putten McDavis on such a do-no-wrong pedestal solely because he is a big booster athletics. That's fine, if that's what is most important to you, but don't spew this fantasy that it is somehow increasing Ohio's academic profile. In those six years, by how many millions of dollars has the university subsidized the athletic program? And the academic results have been negligible. If the ultimate goal is to have winning football and men's basketball teams, then money well spent. If the ultimate goal is to make Ohio a better university, then it appears to be the worst investment since mortgage backed derivative funds. It would seem to me that all those millions of dollars every year would have done a heck of a lot more to move Ohio forward were they devoted to scholarships for all those 30+ ACT students who--while they might be applying to Ohio as a safety school--are still clearly choosing to attend elsewhere.

Honestly, if I'm an administrator at Fiami or O$U, I would want McDavis to stay at Ohio for as long as possible.
man, how can you say that it is "clearly not driving higher quality students" when all the stats except 1 show an improvement or are the same. You are being dishonest when you say there is no statistical improvement. Now, everyone may want more of an increase in quality, but it's not declining and it's not staying the same so it must be better. You have an ax to grind and nothing you have been saying disproves it. I love it when somebody goes off like you do and bases your whole argument on a falsehood and when disproven , says oh that doesn't matter. No credibility at all.


First of all, you're assuming a direct causation.  Correlation is not causation!  How do you know that the (small) gain in top students has anything to do with football/basketball success?  What factors or studies do you have that says top students pick a school based on football success?  At the very best, athletic success is driving some increases in applications among average (or even reject) level applicants.  It's not driving any quality gains.  Secondly, even if these small gains are driven 100% by athletic success is that in any way cost effective relative to the millions of dollars per year that the university is funneling into the athletic department versus using the money directly to recruit and give scholarships to these students?

What has been the total athletic subsidy over the last six years?  HINT: it's in the tens of millions of dollars!  And what has it produced?  50 or 60 extra 30+ ACT students.  Maybe 25 extra students from the top tenth of their high school class.  AND THERE IS NO REAL PROOF THAT THOSE SMALL INCREASES EVEN HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH ATHLETICS!

And by the way, our freshman class has actually gotten SMALLER counter to what other people believe.  In 2006, Ohio enrolled 4075 entering freshmen.  In 2012, Ohio enrolled 3884 entering freshman.

Stop listening to McDavis' self-serving propaganda and actually go through the common data sets from the beginning of his tenure to the current one.  Ohio is falling further and further behind osu and miami and has even been overtaken by cincy.  If you find something in there to counter my argument, I'll be happy to listen.


OUPride person, you don't get it.

First, I'm not terribly big on intangible assets being assigned big value, but think about your handle on this board.  Obviously, your very name shows pride in the O H I O.  In that same way, most of us here are no longer at the University but care deeply about O H I O.  We beam with pride when we win or hear good news of O H I O.

That same pride and caring is certainly considered by prospective students.  How do people regard O H I O?  In this day of your social network, don't you think that applicants give some consideration as to how O H I O will look on their permanent record?  

So, while I can't put a specific dollar value on such as foot and basket and volley teams that win, I assure you that there is value.  Your take that success in athletics does not help would seem to not hold much water.

Ask people here if, in the past few years, theyve worn O H I O gear and had people all over the U.S. and internationally ask if they went to school at O H I O.  A lot of those who ask know about O H I O because of foot and basket.






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Casper71
General User

Member Since: 12/1/2006
Post Count: 2,895

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  Message Not Read  RE: Looks like Christmas is coming sooner for a lot of you...
   Posted: 8/3/2013 11:36:26 PM 
I will be the first to admit that I don't have or know all the admission and student profile stats.  What I believe to be true is that OHIO may not be as highly rated as it was 10 years ago in the US News and World Report rankings.  Like em or not many people use those rankings when evaluating schools and I fear we are not keeping up.  Can anyone verify our ranking 10 over the last 10 years or am I just hallucinating. 

As for Cincinnati, I can assure you they have made great strides in academics over the last ten years and have objective criteria in place to measure the academics/progress at the school.  After spending a ton of money on all facilities they are now pouring money into BOTH athletics and scholarships and they are starting to see the positive results.  I think they are showing that you have to spend money to keep up in the athletic and academic arms race on campuses across the country.  Time will tell if they make it to the big5 and AAU status.  Does OHIO have those kinds of plans in place?  i don't think so.  And, I continue to say it is because we simply do not have the financial or alumni support to do what Cincinnati is doing.
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OUPride
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Member Since: 9/21/2010
Post Count: 562

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  Message Not Read  RE: Looks like Christmas is coming sooner for a lot of you...
   Posted: 8/4/2013 12:06:20 AM 
The Situation wrote:
[QUOTE=OUPride] 


MCDAVIS IS THE MAN WITH THE PLAN. 
 



Perhaps.  Perhaps he is.  I, however, prefer to call MCDAVIS: THE TRAIN WRECK WITH THE PAYCHECK.

I've laid out my facts, long term trends and statistics which come directly from Ohio University's own records and institutional data....aka the common data set.  People can choose to believe them or not, and time will tell who is right about this.

As for some people on this board, you remind me quite a bit of sports obsessed, football uber alles, Ohio State sidewalk alumni.  At the end of the day, I truly hope that your (and McClowny's) vision for Ohio University is not the one that sticks.
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