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Topic:  RE: OT: The Future of the College Football Playoff

Topic:  RE: OT: The Future of the College Football Playoff
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TheBobcatBandit
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Future of the College Football Playoff
   Posted: 12/5/2023 3:19:31 PM 
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:
BTC bumped an older thread on this topic and now I'm curious. There were a lot of posts back then - almost 10 years ago - that stated their fandom for Ohio football would be lower if Ohio/MAC football was relegated to a lower division.

Can I ask why? I'm genuinely curious. I understand you wouldn't be considered on the same level as an OSU or Michigan, but isn't that already true? Is it the glimmer of hope that maybe some day with an undefeated dream season that Ohio would be among those playing in a New Year's bowl? Doesn't that more or less get diminished when you're not playing for a national championship? And even with the 12 team format there is no guarantee you'd be the highest ranked.

If Ohio actually had a national championship to play for if it was relegated to a lower division, why is that less appealing? I've seen some FCS playoff games with incredible atmospheres and games that are just as exciting as any Tuesday MACtion. It's not like the brand of football would be changing by much, IMO. There were some years where an Ohio team may have gotten beat by an FCS champ like App State or NDSU.


I think the reasons are obvious.

There is more to being an FBS football school than just the brand of football being played on the field.

And comparing a playoff atmosphere to Tuesday night MACtion is not one I'd put on the top of the list of pros.

In addition, just dropping a division doesn't save you money. You have the same problems, only a lot less money and a lot less appeal.


+1 think it’s weird that some posters want this for us. It’s a step down and people aren’t going to care about a D2 national championship anymore than a bowl game. This is bad for all football and anti competition. It’s similar to a business industry where a few companies have a monopoly. These big schools want no competition to their power. They don’t want other schools rising up to challenge them. Even if they have a better product. They will buy out the product through nil and the environment that created it will be destroyed. The result is there will be less innovation in the game and less competition and the product will suffer. The big schools are Walmart. The small schools your friendly local small business.

This also hurts other sports where we do compete for titles. Mens Basketball, womens volleyball and I’m sure other sports have competed for national titles. Let’s hope they don’t also get regulated to the same fate.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Future of the College Football Playoff
   Posted: 12/5/2023 3:39:34 PM 
I think folks are falling into a bit of a logical trap here.

They're talking about "dropping a level" but thinking within the existing framework, and thinking about how that applies with existing levels.

The levels aren't the same anymore. That NIL proposal today seals it. Dropping a level no longer means FCS.
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Future of the College Football Playoff
   Posted: 12/5/2023 3:55:00 PM 
TheBobcatBandit wrote:
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:
BTC bumped an older thread on this topic and now I'm curious. There were a lot of posts back then - almost 10 years ago - that stated their fandom for Ohio football would be lower if Ohio/MAC football was relegated to a lower division.

Can I ask why? I'm genuinely curious. I understand you wouldn't be considered on the same level as an OSU or Michigan, but isn't that already true? Is it the glimmer of hope that maybe some day with an undefeated dream season that Ohio would be among those playing in a New Year's bowl? Doesn't that more or less get diminished when you're not playing for a national championship? And even with the 12 team format there is no guarantee you'd be the highest ranked.

If Ohio actually had a national championship to play for if it was relegated to a lower division, why is that less appealing? I've seen some FCS playoff games with incredible atmospheres and games that are just as exciting as any Tuesday MACtion. It's not like the brand of football would be changing by much, IMO. There were some years where an Ohio team may have gotten beat by an FCS champ like App State or NDSU.


I think the reasons are obvious.

There is more to being an FBS football school than just the brand of football being played on the field.

And comparing a playoff atmosphere to Tuesday night MACtion is not one I'd put on the top of the list of pros.

In addition, just dropping a division doesn't save you money. You have the same problems, only a lot less money and a lot less appeal.


+1 think it’s weird that some posters want this for us. It’s a step down and people aren’t going to care about a D2 national championship anymore than a bowl game. This is bad for all football and anti competition. It’s similar to a business industry where a few companies have a monopoly. These big schools want no competition to their power. They don’t want other schools rising up to challenge them. Even if they have a better product. They will buy out the product through nil and the environment that created it will be destroyed. The result is there will be less innovation in the game and less competition and the product will suffer. The big schools are Walmart. The small schools your friendly local small business.

This also hurts other sports where we do compete for titles. Mens Basketball, womens volleyball and I’m sure other sports have competed for national titles. Let’s hope they don’t also get regulated to the same fate.


Clearly you don't see the distinction between a championship and a bowl game. In the MAC, you would first play for a league championship which would then qualify /position you for a national tournament. That's a whole lot different and more important than a convention and visitor's bureau gimic in places many of us don't even have on our bucket list to visit. No offense to any of the "bowl" towns but come on, Myrtle Beach for a vacation in December. I guarantee you that these 24 schools were/are excited to actually be playing for a title.

https://www.ncaa.com/brackets/football/fcs/2023

Last Edited: 12/5/2023 3:56:42 PM by Alan Swank
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Mark Lembright '85
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Future of the College Football Playoff
   Posted: 12/5/2023 4:21:53 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
TheBobcatBandit wrote:
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:
BTC bumped an older thread on this topic and now I'm curious. There were a lot of posts back then - almost 10 years ago - that stated their fandom for Ohio football would be lower if Ohio/MAC football was relegated to a lower division.

Can I ask why? I'm genuinely curious. I understand you wouldn't be considered on the same level as an OSU or Michigan, but isn't that already true? Is it the glimmer of hope that maybe some day with an undefeated dream season that Ohio would be among those playing in a New Year's bowl? Doesn't that more or less get diminished when you're not playing for a national championship? And even with the 12 team format there is no guarantee you'd be the highest ranked.

If Ohio actually had a national championship to play for if it was relegated to a lower division, why is that less appealing? I've seen some FCS playoff games with incredible atmospheres and games that are just as exciting as any Tuesday MACtion. It's not like the brand of football would be changing by much, IMO. There were some years where an Ohio team may have gotten beat by an FCS champ like App State or NDSU.


I think the reasons are obvious.

There is more to being an FBS football school than just the brand of football being played on the field.

And comparing a playoff atmosphere to Tuesday night MACtion is not one I'd put on the top of the list of pros.

In addition, just dropping a division doesn't save you money. You have the same problems, only a lot less money and a lot less appeal.


+1 think it’s weird that some posters want this for us. It’s a step down and people aren’t going to care about a D2 national championship anymore than a bowl game. This is bad for all football and anti competition. It’s similar to a business industry where a few companies have a monopoly. These big schools want no competition to their power. They don’t want other schools rising up to challenge them. Even if they have a better product. They will buy out the product through nil and the environment that created it will be destroyed. The result is there will be less innovation in the game and less competition and the product will suffer. The big schools are Walmart. The small schools your friendly local small business.

This also hurts other sports where we do compete for titles. Mens Basketball, womens volleyball and I’m sure other sports have competed for national titles. Let’s hope they don’t also get regulated to the same fate.


Clearly you don't see the distinction between a championship and a bowl game. In the MAC, you would first play for a league championship which would then qualify /position you for a national tournament. That's a whole lot different and more important than a convention and visitor's bureau gimic in places many of us don't even have on our bucket list to visit. No offense to any of the "bowl" towns but come on, Myrtle Beach for a vacation in December. I guarantee you that these 24 schools were/are excited to actually be playing for a title.

https://www.ncaa.com/brackets/football/fcs/2023



And I have a hunch that lowest rated or least viewed bowl game in this bowl season will have more viewers than the majority of those FCS play-off games. It's not that the FCS games are boring, they just don't register with the casual sports fan. Perhaps the Myrtle Beach bowl doesn't get many people excited either, but I imagine more people will watch that on tv than watched the FCS 2nd round match up between Sacramento State and South Dakota.

Whether we like it or not, most people want to watch major P5 football games. Myself for example. Last Saturday I turned on the Toledo-Miami game on at noon. I hate to say it but it was boring. Not much noise, not much of a crowd or crowd participation. The game was very quiet, I found it to be boring even though I follow MAC football. I turned on the Texas-Oklahoma State game and at least that game included a large boisterous crowd full of energy with a sold-out stadium, the bands going at it, etc. Then there were the 4:00 games with the P5s, all involving full stadiums, fans and bands going at it, etc. That kind of game appeals far more to the tv viewer than an empty Ford Field with Toledo and Miami going at it.


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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Future of the College Football Playoff
   Posted: 12/5/2023 4:55:29 PM 
Mark Lembright '85 wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
TheBobcatBandit wrote:
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:
BTC bumped an older thread on this topic and now I'm curious. There were a lot of posts back then - almost 10 years ago - that stated their fandom for Ohio football would be lower if Ohio/MAC football was relegated to a lower division.

Can I ask why? I'm genuinely curious. I understand you wouldn't be considered on the same level as an OSU or Michigan, but isn't that already true? Is it the glimmer of hope that maybe some day with an undefeated dream season that Ohio would be among those playing in a New Year's bowl? Doesn't that more or less get diminished when you're not playing for a national championship? And even with the 12 team format there is no guarantee you'd be the highest ranked.

If Ohio actually had a national championship to play for if it was relegated to a lower division, why is that less appealing? I've seen some FCS playoff games with incredible atmospheres and games that are just as exciting as any Tuesday MACtion. It's not like the brand of football would be changing by much, IMO. There were some years where an Ohio team may have gotten beat by an FCS champ like App State or NDSU.


I think the reasons are obvious.

There is more to being an FBS football school than just the brand of football being played on the field.

And comparing a playoff atmosphere to Tuesday night MACtion is not one I'd put on the top of the list of pros.

In addition, just dropping a division doesn't save you money. You have the same problems, only a lot less money and a lot less appeal.


+1 think it’s weird that some posters want this for us. It’s a step down and people aren’t going to care about a D2 national championship anymore than a bowl game. This is bad for all football and anti competition. It’s similar to a business industry where a few companies have a monopoly. These big schools want no competition to their power. They don’t want other schools rising up to challenge them. Even if they have a better product. They will buy out the product through nil and the environment that created it will be destroyed. The result is there will be less innovation in the game and less competition and the product will suffer. The big schools are Walmart. The small schools your friendly local small business.

This also hurts other sports where we do compete for titles. Mens Basketball, womens volleyball and I’m sure other sports have competed for national titles. Let’s hope they don’t also get regulated to the same fate.


Clearly you don't see the distinction between a championship and a bowl game. In the MAC, you would first play for a league championship which would then qualify /position you for a national tournament. That's a whole lot different and more important than a convention and visitor's bureau gimic in places many of us don't even have on our bucket list to visit. No offense to any of the "bowl" towns but come on, Myrtle Beach for a vacation in December. I guarantee you that these 24 schools were/are excited to actually be playing for a title.

https://www.ncaa.com/brackets/football/fcs/2023



And I have a hunch that lowest rated or least viewed bowl game in this bowl season will have more viewers than the majority of those FCS play-off games. It's not that the FCS games are boring, they just don't register with the casual sports fan. Perhaps the Myrtle Beach bowl doesn't get many people excited either, but I imagine more people will watch that on tv than watched the FCS 2nd round match up between Sacramento State and South Dakota.

Whether we like it or not, most people want to watch major P5 football games. Myself for example. Last Saturday I turned on the Toledo-Miami game on at noon. I hate to say it but it was boring. Not much noise, not much of a crowd or crowd participation. The game was very quiet, I found it to be boring even though I follow MAC football. I turned on the Texas-Oklahoma State game and at least that game included a large boisterous crowd full of energy with a sold-out stadium, the bands going at it, etc. Then there were the 4:00 games with the P5s, all involving full stadiums, fans and bands going at it, etc. That kind of game appeals far more to the tv viewer than an empty Ford Field with Toledo and Miami going at it.




I think what you're describing with Texas-Oklahoma State is a separate argument compared to bowl games that Ohio finds itself in. You want to see power football whether or not Ohio is involved? You can absolutely still watch that. That's gonna be around. But look at who Ohio is playing in bowl games:

West Texas A&M
Richmond
Southern Miss
Marshall
Troy
Utah State
Louisiana Monroe
East Carolina
Appalachian State
Troy
UAB
San Diego State
Nevada
Wyoming
Georgia Southern

Each one of these schools, save maybe San Diego State here in the near future, would be in the same weight class as Ohio in a new division. Wouldn't a chance to advance to a 2nd round be more appealing than a participation trophy for the Cheez It Bowl? Ya'll act like we play Florida or Wisconsin in bowl games.

I still would think the Power conferences would need to fill their regular season schedule out though, similar to how they do now with FCS and G5 schools. We'd still get the paycheck games. Some of those programs want easier wins.

Last Edited: 12/5/2023 5:06:35 PM by GoCats105
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Buckeye to Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Future of the College Football Playoff
   Posted: 12/5/2023 6:06:18 PM 
Let's be honest, nuke the bowl system, put in the playoffs. The bowls are the greatest ponzi scheme ever. The fact that the Idaho Potato Bowl wants $75 per seat, and they want people to buy tickets so that their school looks better, it's gotten to the point where people are indifferent about bowl games. Combine that with the portal, there's no return at this point for the bowl system other than a few glorified bureaucrats in southern cities gloating about an event that ESPN pays for.....
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Jeff McKinney
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Future of the College Football Playoff
   Posted: 12/5/2023 6:19:21 PM 
Bobcat Bandit, it's not D2. There already exists an NCAA D2. This would be a division consisting of current D1 schools in between FBS and FCS. I think we'd be better off joining up with the current FCS than starting a new division in between. But a new division might end up being the answer.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Future of the College Football Playoff
   Posted: 12/5/2023 7:05:06 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
New division on its way: https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/39047353/n...


Well when you count Title IX, that’s $7.5M a year contribution to athletics trust for the athletes. I’ve said it years ago, some you all wanted payers played, some ya wanted an expanded playoff’s. You just didn’t realize those things may eliminate the MAC from the landscape.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Future of the College Football Playoff
   Posted: 12/5/2023 7:11:28 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
New division on its way: https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/39047353/n...


Well when you count Title IX, that’s $7.5M a year contribution to athletics trust for the athletes. I’ve said it years ago, some you all wanted payers played, some ya wanted an expanded playoff’s. You just didn’t realize those things may eliminate the MAC from the landscape.


Yeah, you say it a lot. And every time I say the same thing: the reason I support players being paid has nothing to do with what's best for the MAC, or what's best for competitive balance in college athletics. I think talented people shouldn't be restricted from earning money from their talents. It's a moral issue. I don't care about the MAC, and these weren't unintended consequences.

The NCAA put their head in the sand and ignored the obvious for decades. This is their fault, not the fault of people who think a multi-billion dollar industry am can figure out a way to share upside with the labor.

Last Edited: 12/5/2023 7:13:11 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Casper71
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Future of the College Football Playoff
   Posted: 12/5/2023 7:26:52 PM 
I talked about this in another thread, but I’ll bring it up here also. Those teams not in the power five might as well get their own division and have their own championship. Ohio University did win a national championship in 1960 as a small college. It would be more fun to have a chance to play for national championship at a second level to be thrown out of any chance of winning it in the first level. Unfortunately, that is reality as the way things are now. The whole realignment and NIL thing has ruined college football if you are not one of those 25 schools, they always wanna have on TV and in championships.
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TheBobcatBandit
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Future of the College Football Playoff
   Posted: 12/5/2023 7:51:31 PM 
Jeff McKinney wrote:
Bobcat Bandit, it's not D2. There already exists an NCAA D2. This would be a division consisting of current D1 schools in between FBS and FCS. I think we'd be better off joining up with the current FCS than starting a new division in between. But a new division might end up being the answer.


So what would you call it division 1.5? I think right now while the G5 has an at large in the tourney it’s the worst time possible for this. A few years from now maybe but should see how the new 12 team playoff fairs in my opinion. Also maybe most importantly how does this affect other sports. could see competing for a a title would be more exciting than a bowl game at least initially but after a few years might feel the same way about it we do about bowl games now.
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TheBobcatBandit
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Future of the College Football Playoff
   Posted: 12/5/2023 7:55:11 PM 
Let me provide a what if. If next year a mac school like Toledo goes undefeated and loses a close game in 1st round of CFP. Not a insane idea seeing they went 10-2 this year and were close to going unbeaten. Also NIU and WMU have gone unbeaten recently. Would you want the very next year us to drop out of the CFP after a MAC school goes and plays well?
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TheBobcatBandit
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Future of the College Football Playoff
   Posted: 12/5/2023 8:02:30 PM 
Sorry for spam posting 3 in a row am posting at work but another hypothetical. Remember when WMU went undefeated. They drew a huge crowd at the MAC title against us. If we are part of a sub division 1.5 as I called it. Do they still draw that crowd? Would the fans care as much about being unbeaten and in the top 25 if they weren’t competing for a bcs bowl. I don’t think they would. The crowd would be a fraction of the size IMO
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Future of the College Football Playoff
   Posted: 12/5/2023 8:03:03 PM 
Charlie Brown's gonna kick the ball next year, too.

This is no longer hypothetical. The NCAA literally just suggested a proposal that creates a subdivision for the 'haves', provided they pay players via NIL. That subdivision will have it's own rules on transfers, roster size, etc.

You think the playoff is gonna be for schools that aren't in that subdivision?

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/39047353/n...
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TheBobcatBandit
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Future of the College Football Playoff
   Posted: 12/5/2023 8:51:59 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Charlie Brown's gonna kick the ball next year, too.

This is no longer hypothetical. The NCAA literally just suggested a proposal that creates a subdivision for the 'haves', provided they pay players via NIL. That subdivision will have it's own rules on transfers, roster size, etc.

You think the playoff is gonna be for schools that aren't in that subdivision?

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/39047353/n...


It suggested something that’s literally the definition of hypothetical. It hasn’t passed anything. While we have a at large slot I don’t see why we would go along with this. Is it inevitable probably but ultimately is bad for us and puts us on a lower level then we are currently. Would rather fight this then have a losers mentality about it and lose out on a bunch of money if we or another mac school has a great year.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Future of the College Football Playoff
   Posted: 12/5/2023 8:55:19 PM 
TheBobcatBandit wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Charlie Brown's gonna kick the ball next year, too.

This is no longer hypothetical. The NCAA literally just suggested a proposal that creates a subdivision for the 'haves', provided they pay players via NIL. That subdivision will have it's own rules on transfers, roster size, etc.

You think the playoff is gonna be for schools that aren't in that subdivision?

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/39047353/n...


It suggested something that’s literally the definition of hypothetical. It hasn’t passed anything. While we have a at large slot I don’t see why we would go along with this. Is it inevitable probably but ultimately is bad for us and puts us on a lower level then we are currently. Would rather fight this then have a losers mentality about it and lose out on a bunch of money if we or another mac school has a great year.


Hypothetical like your imaginary example of a MAC team in the playoff?

That is an actual proposal from the President of the NCAA. It's not hypothetical, it's insight into the framework through which the NCAA intends to address the NIL.

If I were a betting man, I'd put my money on the NCAA passing that proposal before I'd put it on a MAC team in the playoff.

It's honestly kind of sad how willing people are to line up and pretend consolation prizes are exciting. It's time to think about the future.

Last Edited: 12/5/2023 8:57:45 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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TheBobcatBandit
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Future of the College Football Playoff
   Posted: 12/5/2023 8:59:35 PM 
It’s the equivalent of getting relegated in soccer. The lower divisions get less interest less fans and less money even if they win their division. At least they in that case get boosted up to the top division. We are stuck in a lower division forever. Maybe would support this with some promotion relegation system
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TheBobcatBandit
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Future of the College Football Playoff
   Posted: 12/5/2023 9:02:02 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
TheBobcatBandit wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Charlie Brown's gonna kick the ball next year, too.

This is no longer hypothetical. The NCAA literally just suggested a proposal that creates a subdivision for the 'haves', provided they pay players via NIL. That subdivision will have it's own rules on transfers, roster size, etc.

You think the playoff is gonna be for schools that aren't in that subdivision?

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/39047353/n...


It suggested something that’s literally the definition of hypothetical. It hasn’t passed anything. While we have a at large slot I don’t see why we would go along with this. Is it inevitable probably but ultimately is bad for us and puts us on a lower level then we are currently. Would rather fight this then have a losers mentality about it and lose out on a bunch of money if we or another mac school has a great year.


Hypothetical like your imaginary example of a MAC team in the playoff?

That is an actual proposal from the President of the NCAA. It's not hypothetical, it's insight into the framework through which the NCAA intends to address the NIL.

If I were a betting man, I'd put my money on the NCAA passing that proposal before I'd put it on a MAC team in the playoff.

It's honestly kind of sad how willing people are to line up and pretend consolation prizes are exciting. It's time to think about the future.


Loser mentality. And WMU and NIU both years they went unbeaten would of made the 12 team playoff so isn’t a crazy idea. You are literally pushing for us the every year be in a consolation prize we are stuck it forever. It’s a losers mindset which I don’t want Ohio to be apart of.

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Future of the College Football Playoff
   Posted: 12/5/2023 9:38:11 PM 
TheBobcatBandit wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
TheBobcatBandit wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Charlie Brown's gonna kick the ball next year, too.

This is no longer hypothetical. The NCAA literally just suggested a proposal that creates a subdivision for the 'haves', provided they pay players via NIL. That subdivision will have it's own rules on transfers, roster size, etc.

You think the playoff is gonna be for schools that aren't in that subdivision?

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/39047353/n...


It suggested something that’s literally the definition of hypothetical. It hasn’t passed anything. While we have a at large slot I don’t see why we would go along with this. Is it inevitable probably but ultimately is bad for us and puts us on a lower level then we are currently. Would rather fight this then have a losers mentality about it and lose out on a bunch of money if we or another mac school has a great year.


Hypothetical like your imaginary example of a MAC team in the playoff?

That is an actual proposal from the President of the NCAA. It's not hypothetical, it's insight into the framework through which the NCAA intends to address the NIL.

If I were a betting man, I'd put my money on the NCAA passing that proposal before I'd put it on a MAC team in the playoff.

It's honestly kind of sad how willing people are to line up and pretend consolation prizes are exciting. It's time to think about the future.


Loser mentality. And WMU and NIU both years they went unbeaten would of made the 12 team playoff so isn’t a crazy idea. You are literally pushing for us the every year be in a consolation prize we are stuck it forever. It’s a losers mindset which I don’t want Ohio to be apart of.



From my vantage point, it's much more of a loser's mentality to sit at the P5s side begging for scraps and pretending we're the same as them.

The G5 needs to grow some balls and try and build something on their own.

The best case scenario you're outlining is that if everything breaks right NIU or WMU gets to lose a tournament game. That's the best case. Congrats, I guess? What do the other 70 G5 teams play for?
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Future of the College Football Playoff
   Posted: 12/5/2023 9:39:04 PM 
TheBobcatBandit wrote:
It’s the equivalent of getting relegated in soccer. The lower divisions get less interest less fans and less money even if they win their division. At least they in that case get boosted up to the top division. We are stuck in a lower division forever. Maybe would support this with some promotion relegation system


It is exactly this. And it's happening. It's inevitable.
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TheBobcatBandit
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Future of the College Football Playoff
   Posted: 12/5/2023 11:37:15 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
TheBobcatBandit wrote:
It’s the equivalent of getting relegated in soccer. The lower divisions get less interest less fans and less money even if they win their division. At least they in that case get boosted up to the top division. We are stuck in a lower division forever. Maybe would support this with some promotion relegation system


It is exactly this. And it's happening. It's inevitable.


If a team won the second league in the premier league and was promoted to the first. Most fans would think it would be inevitable that the next year they would go back down. Yet I’m sure they would still want their team to fight and do everything in their power to stay up. They wouldn’t be happy or wanting to go down a division and make less money and compete for a second tier trophy. Idk why you or others seem to want this. I agree it’s probably inevitable but not even fighting it is why I say it’s a losers mentality. If we could get some sort of playoff with every conference championship or some sort of promotion regulation system with this new division would fight for that instead of giving up and bowing down to being regulated. It’s just been proposed at this point so making some noise about it now and playing well getting and getting an upset in the CFP could change things. Better off fighting now while you can then giving in and years down the line wishing you could’ve fought when you had the chance.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Future of the College Football Playoff
   Posted: 12/6/2023 7:13:38 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Charlie Brown's gonna kick the ball next year, too.

This is no longer hypothetical. The NCAA literally just suggested a proposal that creates a subdivision for the 'haves', provided they pay players via NIL. That subdivision will have it's own rules on transfers, roster size, etc.

You think the playoff is gonna be for schools that aren't in that subdivision?

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/39047353/n...


Interesting article on this by Steve Berkowitz of USA Today.

One commentator on sports talk radio summed it up pretty well:
" This turns the gap between the haves and have nots into the
Grand Canyon".
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Future of the College Football Playoff
   Posted: 12/6/2023 8:00:06 AM 
TheBobcatBandit wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
TheBobcatBandit wrote:
It’s the equivalent of getting relegated in soccer. The lower divisions get less interest less fans and less money even if they win their division. At least they in that case get boosted up to the top division. We are stuck in a lower division forever. Maybe would support this with some promotion relegation system


It is exactly this. And it's happening. It's inevitable.


If a team won the second league in the premier league and was promoted to the first. Most fans would think it would be inevitable that the next year they would go back down. Yet I’m sure they would still want their team to fight and do everything in their power to stay up. They wouldn’t be happy or wanting to go down a division and make less money and compete for a second tier trophy. Idk why you or others seem to want this. I agree it’s probably inevitable but not even fighting it is why I say it’s a losers mentality. If we could get some sort of playoff with every conference championship or some sort of promotion regulation system with this new division would fight for that instead of giving up and bowing down to being regulated. It’s just been proposed at this point so making some noise about it now and playing well getting and getting an upset in the CFP could change things. Better off fighting now while you can then giving in and years down the line wishing you could’ve fought when you had the chance.


It's not clear to me what you mean by "let's fight this." Be unhappy? Post on message boards?

College sports are rapidly changing. I know your view is that the expanded playoff is good news for the G5. The problem is that the whole landscape and entire framework we have is wrong, and is changing. Conferences are changing, the notion of what it is to be P5 is changing, and the dividing line is about money. We don't have that, and need to be proactive about defining our place in the landscape. Just sitting idly by and hoping the big schools take pity on us is not fighting. It's denial.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Future of the College Football Playoff
   Posted: 12/6/2023 8:17:18 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
New division on its way: https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/39047353/n...


Well when you count Title IX, that’s $7.5M a year contribution to athletics trust for the athletes. I’ve said it years ago, some you all wanted payers played, some ya wanted an expanded playoff’s. You just didn’t realize those things may eliminate the MAC from the landscape.


Yeah, you say it a lot. And every time I say the same thing: the reason I support players being paid has nothing to do with what's best for the MAC, or what's best for competitive balance in college athletics. I think talented people shouldn't be restricted from earning money from their talents. It's a moral issue. I don't care about the MAC, and these weren't unintended consequences.

The NCAA put their head in the sand and ignored the obvious for decades. This is their fault, not the fault of people who think a multi-billion dollar industry am can figure out a way to share upside with the labor.


You say that like I do not support players getting paid. What I am saying and continue to say, at the G5 level, the cost is prohibitive to having the sport or sports. There is a point where the worker negoiates themselves out of the labor market. That kind of money would do that to some sports and at some schools.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: The Future of the College Football Playoff
   Posted: 12/6/2023 8:52:51 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:


You say that like I do not support players getting paid. What I am saying and continue to say, at the G5 level, the cost is prohibitive to having the sport or sports. There is a point where the worker negoiates themselves out of the labor market. That kind of money would do that to some sports and at some schools.


It's only cost prohibitive if schools like Ohio University pay the cost. But they don't have to and shouldn't.

Baker's proposal lets schools opt into the school funded NIL. Schools who can afford it do it, those who can't, don't. That's a market taking shape. And it's the path that was always inevitable: a tiered college sports landscape where large programs -- those who generate the lion's share of the revenue -- will be able to share that revenue with athletes, and the rest of college sports will continue via amateurism.

There's a huge segment of college sports fans who insist that what they love about the product is the purity of amateurism, and that paying players ruins it for them. There's absolutely nothing stopping programs like OU, that lose money every single year, from leaning into that amateurism and continuing as is. If you believe college sports fans, it'd be a popular stance to take. Were I magically commissioner of whatever ends up as that second tier, that's exactly what I'd do. I'd lean into the amateurism, implement a true playoff, and market it as sports in its purest form. People playing football because they love it, not because some booster is giving them 300k from their car dealership.

The G5 (or what's left of it) along with the FCS need to chart their own path and take ownership over what they are. They're not able to compete financially with big programs, and there's no longer any incentive for the P5 to bring them along for the ride and feed them scraps every now and again.

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