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Topic:  Asleep at the switch

Topic:  Asleep at the switch
Author
Message
rpbobcat
General User

Member Since: 4/28/2006
Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
Post Count: 3,577

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  Message Not Read  Asleep at the switch
   Posted: 1/22/2025 8:48:50 AM 
According to The Post ,Athens got scammed for $700K on the city's new fire house.

The article says they paid a fraudulent invoice supposedly from the contractor
to the tune of over $700K.

Guess Ohio is different from NJ.

Our here ,contractor's invoices are submitted by a project's engineer or architect.

Also under NJ Statutes if a contractor's invoicing exceeds the original contract, there's an involved procedure to pay them.

I would think if someone gets an invoice for $700K,they'd at least call the contractor and confirm it, before they process payment.
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Alan Swank
General User

Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,170

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Asleep at the switch
   Posted: 1/22/2025 9:27:43 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
According to The Post ,Athens got scammed for $700K on the city's new fire house.

The article says they paid a fraudulent invoice supposedly from the contractor
to the tune of over $700K.

Guess Ohio is different from NJ.

Our here ,contractor's invoices are submitted by a project's engineer or architect.

Also under NJ Statutes if a contractor's invoicing exceeds the original contract, there's an involved procedure to pay them.

I would think if someone gets an invoice for $700K,they'd at least call the contractor and confirm it, before they process payment.




You might want to read up on how this happened before commenting. Not excusing the loss but what happened and how it happened is far different than what you are saying. particularly in your last sentence.
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SBH
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 4,158

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Asleep at the switch
   Posted: 1/22/2025 9:46:40 AM 
I read the story on this. It's hard to believe the city approved and paid an emailed invoice in which the word "construction" is misspelled and the wrong payee telephone # is listed.
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rpbobcat
General User

Member Since: 4/28/2006
Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
Post Count: 3,577

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Asleep at the switch
   Posted: 1/22/2025 9:58:49 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
According to The Post ,Athens got scammed for $700K on the city's new fire house.

The article says they paid a fraudulent invoice supposedly from the contractor
to the tune of over $700K.

Guess Ohio is different from NJ.

Our here ,contractor's invoices are submitted by a project's engineer or architect.

Also under NJ Statutes if a contractor's invoicing exceeds the original contract, there's an involved procedure to pay them.

I would think if someone gets an invoice for $700K,they'd at least call the contractor and confirm it, before they process payment.




You might want to read up on how this happened before commenting. Not excusing the loss but what happened and how it happened is far different than what you are saying. particularly in your last sentence.



Alan:
I read Maggie Allwein's article in Th Post.
I don't see anything in it that indicates anyone in Athens tried to speak to the contractor directly before they authorized payment.
In fact ,given the fact that there were red flags with the request for payment,
I can't understand how the Auditing Department allowed the payment to go through.
I also don't see anywhere that anyone confirmed with the project's architect or engineer that the contractor had an outstanding balance equal to what they were requesting payment.

Last Edited: 1/22/2025 10:15:37 AM by rpbobcat
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Alan Swank
General User

Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,170

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Asleep at the switch
   Posted: 1/22/2025 10:44:06 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
According to The Post ,Athens got scammed for $700K on the city's new fire house.

The article says they paid a fraudulent invoice supposedly from the contractor
to the tune of over $700K.

Guess Ohio is different from NJ.

Our here ,contractor's invoices are submitted by a project's engineer or architect.

Also under NJ Statutes if a contractor's invoicing exceeds the original contract, there's an involved procedure to pay them.

I would think if someone gets an invoice for $700K,they'd at least call the contractor and confirm it, before they process payment.




You might want to read up on how this happened before commenting. Not excusing the loss but what happened and how it happened is far different than what you are saying. particularly in your last sentence.



Alan:
I read Maggie Allwein's article in Th Post.
I don't see anything in it that indicates anyone in Athens tried to speak to the contractor directly before they authorized payment.
In fact ,given the fact that there were red flags with the request for payment,
I can't understand how the Auditing Department allowed the payment to go through.
I also don't see anywhere that anyone confirmed with the project's architect or engineer that the contractor had an outstanding balance equal to what they were requesting payment.


That student article was a Cliff Notes version of a Monarch Notes version of the whole story. Again, not making excuses for the error especially when the city is asking for an 18% increase in the base income tax rate on the May ballot, but there was much more to it than the writer shares in the story. I'll see if I can find one or two of the articles from 5 or 6 weeks ago that lays out the story in complete and accurate detail and that address many of the things that you bring up.
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SBH
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 4,158

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Asleep at the switch
   Posted: 1/22/2025 11:05:11 AM 
What is the base income tax rate today?
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Alan Swank
General User

Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,170

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Asleep at the switch
   Posted: 1/22/2025 11:19:28 AM 
Here are two pretty comprehensive articles on the theft.

https://athensindependent.com/cyber-expert-qa /

https://thomashodson.substack.com/p/athens-cyber-heist-a-...
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Alan Swank
General User

Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,170

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Asleep at the switch
   Posted: 1/22/2025 11:22:48 AM 
SBH wrote:
What is the base income tax rate today?



1.65% but we have an additional .3% for specific projects. The proposed increase is .3% taking the base to 1.95% and the total to 2.25%. It's an earned income tax so pensions, social security and dividends are not taxed even though those folks, myself included, use the city services. And speaking of taxation, almost 40% of the property in the city is OU property which is exempt from property taxes hence are very high local school taxes compared to all of SE Ohio.
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SBH
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 4,158

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Asleep at the switch
   Posted: 1/22/2025 11:29:41 AM 
Seems reasonable to me.
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rpbobcat
General User

Member Since: 4/28/2006
Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
Post Count: 3,577

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Asleep at the switch
   Posted: 1/22/2025 11:54:58 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Here are two pretty comprehensive articles on the theft.

https://athensindependent.com/cyber-expert-qa /

https://thomashodson.substack.com/p/athens-cyber-heist-a-...


So does this mean no one contacted the contractor before issuing the payment ?

I'm sorry.

I handle municipal projects that have contracts totaling $1million or more.

All those projects have multiple checks and balances to assure all approved payments are justified.

Seems to me a simple call to the contractor would have identified the fraud before any payment was made.

I would also think the person or firm that handled this project would need to sign off any payment to the contractor.

Last Edited: 1/22/2025 11:58:28 AM by rpbobcat
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Alan Swank
General User

Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,170

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Asleep at the switch
   Posted: 1/22/2025 1:06:33 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Here are two pretty comprehensive articles on the theft.

https://athensindependent.com/cyber-expert-qa /

https://thomashodson.substack.com/p/athens-cyber-heist-a-...


So does this mean no one contacted the contractor before issuing the payment ?

I'm sorry.

I handle municipal projects that have contracts totaling $1million or more.

All those projects have multiple checks and balances to assure all approved payments are justified.

Seems to me a simple call to the contractor would have identified the fraud before any payment was made.

I would also think the person or firm that handled this project would need to sign off any payment to the contractor.


The "contractor" requested payment as they had on multiple partial payments as the project progressed. The city sent a form to the contractor for payment information which the contractor returned completed to the city. Three city individuals are required to sign the form authorizing payment including the SSD and fiscal officer. The "contractor" transposed two letters in a lengthy address to send the money to and it was not caught.
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BillyTheCat
General User

Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 10,188

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Asleep at the switch
   Posted: 1/22/2025 4:06:20 PM 
SBH wrote:
What is the base income tax rate today?



1.65 ontop of a 1% school district tax, on top of some of the highest property tax mils in the State. In one of the poorest areas.

Last Edited: 1/22/2025 4:07:27 PM by BillyTheCat
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OhioCatFan
General User



Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 14,517

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Asleep at the switch
   Posted: 1/22/2025 10:18:31 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
SBH wrote:
What is the base income tax rate today?



1.65% but we have an additional .3% for specific projects. The proposed increase is .3% taking the base to 1.95% and the total to 2.25%. It's an earned income tax so pensions, social security and dividends are not taxed even though those folks, myself included, use the city services. And speaking of taxation, almost 40% of the property in the city is OU property which is exempt from property taxes hence are very high local school taxes compared to all of SE Ohio.



Any chance of resurrecting the old "impacted cities" payments that used to go from the state to the cities of Athens, Oxford, Bowling Green, and maybe Kent to help offset the high percentage non-taxable land in those cities? As far as I know this funding is no longer in effect?

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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rpbobcat
General User

Member Since: 4/28/2006
Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
Post Count: 3,577

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Asleep at the switch
   Posted: 1/23/2025 7:05:29 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Here are two pretty comprehensive articles on the theft.

https://athensindependent.com/cyber-expert-qa /

https://thomashodson.substack.com/p/athens-cyber-heist-a-...


So does this mean no one contacted the contractor before issuing the payment ?

I'm sorry.

I handle municipal projects that have contracts totaling $1million or more.

All those projects have multiple checks and balances to assure all approved payments are justified.

Seems to me a simple call to the contractor would have identified the fraud before any payment was made.

I would also think the person or firm that handled this project would need to sign off any payment to the contractor.


The "contractor" requested payment as they had on multiple partial payments as the project progressed. The city sent a form to the contractor for payment information which the contractor returned completed to the city. Three city individuals are required to sign the form authorizing payment including the SSD and fiscal officer. The "contractor" transposed two letters in a lengthy address to send the money to and it was not caught.



So does this mean the contract had over $700K open ?

Was there an engineer or architect in charge of the overall project ?

As I posted, for Municipal projects in NJ either the project engineer or architect has to sign a contractor's "voucher".

Also, under NJ Law if a payment puts a project over the original contract,
a town must follow a much more involved process to pay the contractor.

Last Edited: 1/23/2025 7:11:57 AM by rpbobcat
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Alan Swank
General User

Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,170

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Asleep at the switch
   Posted: 1/23/2025 8:36:47 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Here are two pretty comprehensive articles on the theft.

https://athensindependent.com/cyber-expert-qa /

https://thomashodson.substack.com/p/athens-cyber-heist-a-...


So does this mean no one contacted the contractor before issuing the payment ?

I'm sorry.

I handle municipal projects that have contracts totaling $1million or more.

All those projects have multiple checks and balances to assure all approved payments are justified.

Seems to me a simple call to the contractor would have identified the fraud before any payment was made.

I would also think the person or firm that handled this project would need to sign off any payment to the contractor.


The "contractor" requested payment as they had on multiple partial payments as the project progressed. The city sent a form to the contractor for payment information which the contractor returned completed to the city. Three city individuals are required to sign the form authorizing payment including the SSD and fiscal officer. The "contractor" transposed two letters in a lengthy address to send the money to and it was not caught.



So does this mean the contract had over $700K open ?

Was there an engineer or architect in charge of the overall project ?

As I posted, for Municipal projects in NJ either the project engineer or architect has to sign a contractor's "voucher".

Also, under NJ Law if a payment puts a project over the original contract,
a town must follow a much more involved process to pay the contractor.


Yes and yes and this "ain't" NJ the land of everything being kosher and above board. :)
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rpbobcat
General User

Member Since: 4/28/2006
Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
Post Count: 3,577

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Asleep at the switch
   Posted: 1/23/2025 10:13:47 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Here are two pretty comprehensive articles on the theft.

https://athensindependent.com/cyber-expert-qa /

https://thomashodson.substack.com/p/athens-cyber-heist-a-...


So does this mean no one contacted the contractor before issuing the payment ?

I'm sorry.

I handle municipal projects that have contracts totaling $1million or more.

All those projects have multiple checks and balances to assure all approved payments are justified.

Seems to me a simple call to the contractor would have identified the fraud before any payment was made.

I would also think the person or firm that handled this project would need to sign off any payment to the contractor.


The "contractor" requested payment as they had on multiple partial payments as the project progressed. The city sent a form to the contractor for payment information which the contractor returned completed to the city. Three city individuals are required to sign the form authorizing payment including the SSD and fiscal officer. The "contractor" transposed two letters in a lengthy address to send the money to and it was not caught.



So does this mean the contract had over $700K open ?

Was there an engineer or architect in charge of the overall project ?

As I posted, for Municipal projects in NJ either the project engineer or architect has to sign a contractor's "voucher".

Also, under NJ Law if a payment puts a project over the original contract,
a town must follow a much more involved process to pay the contractor.


Yes and yes and this "ain't" NJ the land of everything being kosher and above board. :)



So did the engineer and/or architect sign off on the payment too ?

All I know is, if I ever incorrectly authorized a large payment on one of my municipal contracts, I'd be fired as the municipal engineer and sued for malpractice.
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rpbobcat
General User

Member Since: 4/28/2006
Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
Post Count: 3,577

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Asleep at the switch
   Posted: 1/23/2025 10:27:40 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Here are two pretty comprehensive articles on the theft.

https://athensindependent.com/cyber-expert-qa /

https://thomashodson.substack.com/p/athens-cyber-heist-a-...


So does this mean no one contacted the contractor before issuing the payment ?

I'm sorry.

I handle municipal projects that have contracts totaling $1million or more.

All those projects have multiple checks and balances to assure all approved payments are justified.

Seems to me a simple call to the contractor would have identified the fraud before any payment was made.

I would also think the person or firm that handled this project would need to sign off any payment to the contractor.


The "contractor" requested payment as they had on multiple partial payments as the project progressed. The city sent a form to the contractor for payment information which the contractor returned completed to the city. Three city individuals are required to sign the form authorizing payment including the SSD and fiscal officer. The "contractor" transposed two letters in a lengthy address to send the money to and it was not caught.



So does this mean the contract had over $700K open ?

Was there an engineer or architect in charge of the overall project ?

As I posted, for Municipal projects in NJ either the project engineer or architect has to sign a contractor's "voucher".

Also, under NJ Law if a payment puts a project over the original contract,
a town must follow a much more involved process to pay the contractor.


Yes and yes and this "ain't" NJ the land of everything being kosher and above board. :)



So did the engineer and/or architect sign off on the payment too ?

All I know is, if I ever incorrectly authorized a large payment on one of my municipal contracts, I'd be fired as the municipal engineer and sued for malpractice.
Do you know if any of the people responsible for this face any kind of repercussions?
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CatFud
General User

Member Since: 10/25/2021
Post Count: 23

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Asleep at the switch
   Posted: 2/14/2025 3:33:16 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
SBH wrote:
What is the base income tax rate today?



1.65 ontop of a 1% school district tax, on top of some of the highest property tax mils in the State. In one of the poorest areas.


Local property taxes have effectively doubled over the past 5 years (but the new fire station is really nice, so we're good, right?).

Last Edited: 2/14/2025 4:30:22 PM by CatFud
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CatFud
General User

Member Since: 10/25/2021
Post Count: 23

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Asleep at the switch
   Posted: 2/14/2025 3:41:27 PM 
CatFud wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
SBH wrote:
What is the base income tax rate today?



1.65 ontop of a 1% school district tax, on top of some of the highest property tax mils in the State. In one of the poorest areas.


On top of property taxes that have doubled in the past 3 years (but the new fire station is nice, so we're good, right?).



CPI alone is officially +27% pre-covid, which the University administration seems to imagine was covered adequately by a couple of 2% raise pools (but we finally won a MACC, so we're good, right?).

Last Edited: 2/14/2025 4:39:06 PM by CatFud
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CatFud
General User

Member Since: 10/25/2021
Post Count: 23

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Asleep at the switch
   Posted: 2/14/2025 3:46:58 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
SBH wrote:
What is the base income tax rate today?



1.65% but we have an additional .3% for specific projects. The proposed increase is .3% taking the base to 1.95% and the total to 2.25%. It's an earned income tax so pensions, social security and dividends are not taxed even though those folks, myself included, use the city services. And speaking of taxation, almost 40% of the property in the city is OU property which is exempt from property taxes hence are very high local school taxes compared to all of SE Ohio.



For those of us who work in the City, but live in the County, this is literally taxation without representation.

Last Edited: 2/14/2025 4:23:05 PM by CatFud
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Alan Swank
General User

Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,170

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Asleep at the switch
   Posted: 2/14/2025 6:52:01 PM 
CatFud wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
SBH wrote:
What is the base income tax rate today?



1.65 ontop of a 1% school district tax, on top of some of the highest property tax mils in the State. In one of the poorest areas.


Local property taxes have effectively doubled over the past 5 years (but the new fire station is really nice, so we're good, right?).



Not even close to doubling. 30% to be exact since 2020. That said, for SE Ohio we're definitely on the high end in Athens County. As for the fire station, the one built in the 60s on Columbus Road on stilts was to the point of no longer being able to support the weight of today's trucks.
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Alan Swank
General User

Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,170

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Asleep at the switch
   Posted: 2/14/2025 6:53:18 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
SBH wrote:
What is the base income tax rate today?



1.65% but we have an additional .3% for specific projects. The proposed increase is .3% taking the base to 1.95% and the total to 2.25%. It's an earned income tax so pensions, social security and dividends are not taxed even though those folks, myself included, use the city services. And speaking of taxation, almost 40% of the property in the city is OU property which is exempt from property taxes hence are very high local school taxes compared to all of SE Ohio.



Any chance of resurrecting the old "impacted cities" payments that used to go from the state to the cities of Athens, Oxford, Bowling Green, and maybe Kent to help offset the high percentage non-taxable land in those cities? As far as I know this funding is no longer in effect?


Interesting question. I actually had a discussion about that with our new state rep at the fire station ribbon cutting particularly when it comes to the OU demand on our fire services. We're supposed to take that discussion up again this spring.
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OhioCatFan
General User



Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 14,517

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Asleep at the switch
   Posted: 2/15/2025 12:29:58 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
SBH wrote:
What is the base income tax rate today?



1.65% but we have an additional .3% for specific projects. The proposed increase is .3% taking the base to 1.95% and the total to 2.25%. It's an earned income tax so pensions, social security and dividends are not taxed even though those folks, myself included, use the city services. And speaking of taxation, almost 40% of the property in the city is OU property which is exempt from property taxes hence are very high local school taxes compared to all of SE Ohio.



Any chance of resurrecting the old "impacted cities" payments that used to go from the state to the cities of Athens, Oxford, Bowling Green, and maybe Kent to help offset the high percentage non-taxable land in those cities? As far as I know this funding is no longer in effect.


Interesting question. I actually had a discussion about that with our new state rep at the fire station ribbon cutting particularly when it comes to the OU demand on our fire services. We're supposed to take that discussion up again this spring.


Good news! Keep us posted, as we not get the story in a timely manner from the local media, or what's left of it.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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OhioCatFan
General User



Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 14,517

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Asleep at the switch
   Posted: 2/15/2025 12:32:16 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:
CatFud wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
SBH wrote:
What is the base income tax rate today?



1.65 ontop of a 1% school district tax, on top of some of the highest property tax mils in the State. In one of the poorest areas.


Local property taxes have effectively doubled over the past 5 years (but the new fire station is really nice, so we're good, right?).



Not even close to doubling. 30% to be exact since 2020. That said, for SE Ohio we're definitely on the high end in Athens County. As for the fire station, the one built in the 60s on Columbus Road on stilts was to the point of no longer being able to support the weight of today's trucks.



I know it would have impossible to have renovated and installed more support for those floors. Nope, just build a new one, and tear the old one down. It's the American Way!

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Alan Swank
General User

Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,170

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Asleep at the switch
   Posted: 2/15/2025 8:36:21 AM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
CatFud wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
SBH wrote:
What is the base income tax rate today?



1.65 ontop of a 1% school district tax, on top of some of the highest property tax mils in the State. In one of the poorest areas.


Local property taxes have effectively doubled over the past 5 years (but the new fire station is really nice, so we're good, right?).



Not even close to doubling. 30% to be exact since 2020. That said, for SE Ohio we're definitely on the high end in Athens County. As for the fire station, the one built in the 60s on Columbus Road on stilts was to the point of no longer being able to support the weight of today's trucks.



I know it would have impossible to have renovated and installed more support for those floors. Nope, just build a new one, and tear the old one down. It's the American Way!


Actually there had been multiple support systems put in to hold up the floor. You can drive over there and go around back and see them. At this time, there is no plan to tear down the building. In can still be used for less weighty purposes.
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