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Topic: RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Kentucky

Topic: RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Kentucky

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SVAC83
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RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Kentucky

Posted: 11/19/2021 9:20:11 PM

My take on this game really was in the first half bobcat defense was horrible. on several possessions no one guarded the ball. This should of been Ohio 10 point lead at half. In the second half i feel the exact opposite. I understand even in the first half Ohio didn't have much luck at the rim but those plays and that action opened everything up. also is what caused a lot of Kentucky fouls. In second half we stood around and did not attack the rim.

Kentucky was Kentucky in second half and Ohio just started chucking up shots instead of playing offense. Still a great learning game. I don't think you can take anything from this game about MAC pay or this teams chances in march. This team will change a lot between now and March and so were their opponents.

look forward to the rest of the year.

Bobcat61
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RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Kentucky

Posted: 11/19/2021 9:36:11 PM

Lexington, Ky has Rupp Arena the first 30 min of the game
If game is close with 10 or less minutes to play- name changes to Corrupt
Arena
That fact has been true in the SEC for many years

greencat
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RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Kentucky

Posted: 11/19/2021 9:41:19 PM

The building is owned by the city & county, not the school. It is a shame with all that is known about Adolph Rupp that they have left his name on it for all these years.

bornacatfan
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RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Kentucky

Posted: 11/19/2021 9:46:55 PM

greencat wrote:

The building is owned by the city & county, not the school. It is a shame with all that is known about Adolph Rupp that they have left his name on it for all these years.

Just follow the narrative....

never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game

Cbus Convo
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RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Kentucky

Posted: 11/19/2021 10:09:02 PM

greencat wrote:

The building is owned by the city & county, not the school. It is a shame with all that is known about Adolph Rupp that they have left his name on it for all these years.

This may or may not be true, but it�s on the people of Kentucky to figure it out. Thankfully, this decision is not on us.

LuckySparrow
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RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Kentucky

Posted: 11/19/2021 10:20:59 PM

Fantastic first half but I knew we were in trouble since it was so close and we played so well. Getting dominated on the boards like that isn't going to work when we're not hitting 3s.

Roderick still asleep. Not much from Lundo. Sears came up empty. Carter was decent and BVP played well. Effort was there. Boals said fatigue was a factor in the 2H.

What a day at the Convo.....Wow!

Mike Johnson
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RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Kentucky

Posted: 11/19/2021 10:25:35 PM

bornacatfan wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

Mike Johnson wrote:

El Gato Roberto wrote:

Taiwan BC wrote:

This is the game that we will miss Dwight the most. Last year, he was able to play Cockburn well, limiting (Yeah, I said limiting) him to 13 pts and 14 boards. Tshiebwe is a beast and we don't have anyone to challenge him down low... Offensively, we can drag him out to the perimeter if JC is shooting 3's but defensively, he will be next to impossible to counter. It's going to take some excellent 3 pt shooting by the Bobcats and we have to hope the opposite happens to them. Not impossible, but not likely either. I just hope we play them tough and try not to get blown out so that the computer ranking numbers don't crush us.
I also think this is a great experience for the team to play in a big time environment. I hope it helps us in March...

GO BOBCATS!

Fully agree. Getting a chance to compete with Kentucky at Rupp is going to be a great experience.

A friend of mine, now deceased, played at Georgia Tech in the early 50s. He loved to relate how his Yellow Jackets went into Rupp Arena as underdogs and came out a winner. His joy in that accomplishment never diminished.

That would have been a good trick Mike since Rupp didn't open until 1976.

Nope they were in Alumni Gym where I spent a good portion of the first 2 years of my life. Still stop and visit there when I need to talk to my Pops. I am sure that is where his spirit rests.

Yeah, after I posted I recalled that Rupp Arena hadn't opened; as evident, I didn't think to edit the post. BTW, the chap that I referenced was Jess Carrol. As our friendship grew, I took to following Georgia Tech football and basketball, and Jess began following OHIO football and basketball.

http://www.facebook.com/mikejohnson.author

oubobcatjohn
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RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Kentucky

Posted: 11/20/2021 12:09:48 AM

Bobcats should be fine. Kentucky is top 15 talent in country. Bobcats got a taste of what a first round ncaa tournament game would be like. They hung around but come March they ready to win. Kentucky saw Ohio is an dangerous team. No team will want to draw us in first round.

GoCats105
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RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Kentucky

Posted: 11/20/2021 12:17:51 AM

Just too many missed opportunities to win a game like that. I counted about 3 or 4 wide open backdoor cuts that would have been easy buckets, but guys just didn't either see or make the play. Count that with missed open threes and bunnies around the basket and the rebounding edge, and you get a loss. Tall task, but they still looked good for about 30 minutes and held serve.

Also you could tell the length bothered us and it makes me wonder if we took less chances on some interior passing thinking it would get stolen or deflected. Oh well, good tune up for the guys who haven't played against a team like this.

longtiimelurker
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RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Kentucky

Posted: 11/20/2021 7:42:11 AM

oubobcatjohn wrote:

.... Ohio is an dangerous team. No team will want to draw us in first round.

Mark it down. November is the earliest to ever see this line. Congratulations on that, it must be a record,

Bobcat1998
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RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Kentucky

Posted: 11/20/2021 8:29:09 AM

That dunk miss by Carter was so big. We are up 4 on that with some swagger. Instead he biffs it and UK scores. We had a ton of great cuts and passes down low where OUr guys missed bunnies, didn't pump fake and got stuffed or kicked it out. Kron has Freeman and Beefalo has their athletic bigs but I feel better about our chances against JeeNathan Williama and Mballa given how we have done against UK bigs and Belmont post. Tscwiebe was averaging 20 boards per game. We were killed by the other guys.

FearLeon
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RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Kentucky

Posted: 11/20/2021 8:48:33 AM

Bobcat1998 wrote:

. Tscwiebe was averaging 20 boards per game. We were killed by the other guys.

I hear ya, but if Oscar played 35 minutes last night he would�ve grabbed 28 rebounds by himself.

Last Edited: 11/20/2021 9:12:07 AM by FearLeon

#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

Diamond Cat
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RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Kentucky

Posted: 11/20/2021 9:45:46 AM

Agree with many comments here. UK seemingly made every open shot when it counted while shooting 94% from the stripe. We had so many open shots that we just didn't hit.

Not really crushed by this loss though. If DW3 gets back in time to blend in with the team chemistry, I like our prospects.

Last Edited: 11/20/2021 9:46:13 AM by Diamond Cat

MonroeClassmate
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RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Kentucky

Posted: 11/20/2021 11:21:21 AM

Wow, how many steals did we have? And how few turnovers we had!

A turnover, a couple of missed shots and bang, you can be down 10 in a heartbeat.

Long rebounds were energy killers getting new shot clocks on several KY possessions.

They beat OUr guys with numerous mid range jumpers from the elbow or the baseline. The three was pretty well defended. Can our remaining opponents knock down 16 footers that might be open when the three is well defended? OUr bench will play better vs these remaining opponents because they won't see the 4th-8th man be big time division one talent.

The final should have been a 9-14 point loss if we hadn't gone stone cold shooting. I think that is a very good showing on the road in front of a hostile crowd vs a "Blueblood" program with a top tier coach.

allen
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RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Kentucky

Posted: 11/20/2021 12:31:41 PM

Kentucky got way too many offensive rebounds and we missed way too many shots. This is just the start of the season, we need to make some adjustments. We need to improve on moving without the basketball, defensive communication and rebounding for this team to make the run that they want and expect to make. Roderick needs to add to his game and whoever is starting at the guard spot needs to knock down open looks. Our bigs rushed some shots, they are dogs, they don�t need to rush anything going forward.

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

Taiwan BC
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RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Kentucky

Posted: 11/20/2021 3:17:40 PM

I thought the Bobcats played well. We are just too short handed in low post rebounding right now. We will do better once we get IJ back and, hopefully Dwight will be able to help after the New Year. We will have another similar test with LSU soon enough. Let�s see if we can improve in SEC matchup number 2�

GO BOBCATS!

GraffZ06
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RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Kentucky

Posted: 11/20/2021 4:29:50 PM

We hit 3s in the first half and didn't in the 2nd. Fatigue, as Boals suggested, may have played a role in this. UK played without Tshiebwe in the first half and his presence was felt in the 2nd ESPECIALLY on defense and the boards.

Carter and BVP played as well as can be expected IMO. They can hang with that team. Sears "can" but looked like a Sophomore playing big minutes against a top 15 team for the first time in his career on some of those drives (because that's exactly what he is). He's got to learn a floater (ala Preston) or be able to hit a pull up jumper from the foul line, because his first step is deadly. He also needs to learn to finish at the rim through contact (easier said than done against length like UK) but 2-11 from the field isn't going to cut it from our top scorer.

AJ Clayton, apparently enjoys 3s from the top of the key. Okay young fella. He wasn't ready for a game like tonight but had 2 big buckets, and I believe scored 6 of our final 11 points. So that's something.

The rest of the team? Ehhhh...not so much. BVP/Carter/Clayton went 17-33 from the floor. Rest of the team was 5-27 (That's 18.5% for those wondering). That's obviously not good enough. In fact, that's terrible. Sears, I think, can make the adjustments. We DESPERATELY need a 4th option though. Where is that coming from?

I'm not upset we lost. I honestly expected to lose. It's how we lost. I hoped to keep it under 10. For the first 30 minutes that looked like reality, then the wheels COMPLETELY fell off the wagon.

The game was 48-48 with 13 and change to play. We scored 11 freaking points in the final 13+ minutes. And like I said, 6 of those were from Clayton. You trying to tell me we could only score 5 points in 13 MINUTES minus Clayton?? Yeesh.

For as well as we played for 30 minutes, it's disheartening to end up blown out by 18. And it could have been 25. UK turned on the D, got their big back in the game, and we just shriveled like a frightened turtle.

Inexplicably, down the stretch, we just REFUSED to drive to the paint and try to finish or draw fouls. I don't know if Tshiebwe's presence got into their heads and they were worried about getting their shot rejected, or they lost confidence from being frustrated (Sears) or what. But we just stopped. I think UK had 1 or 2 team fouls in the entire 2nd half. We full out stopped being aggressive on O. We set screens. We move without the ball. We share the ball well. All good things, but sometimes you have to do more than settle for hoisting 3s, even if they're good looks.

Ben Roderick. 1 point. 1 freaking point. Dude, you can't rebound or play defense. If you're not going to score, take a seat.

McDay and Brown? They're fine MAC rotational guys. But they're JAG.

Tommy Schmock? Kid should be a walk-on. I mean that's essentially what he is. Walk-ons don't belong on the floor against top 15 teams. He looked WILDLY out of his league in all facets. In fact I cringed every time he checked in or touched the ball. I said it before and I'll say it again - this ain't Capital University. Welcome to big boy D1 basketball.

Then there's the enigma of Sam Towns (1 minute) and IJ Ezuma (DNP). Boy would it be nice to get something, ANYTHING out of these guys. Apparently coaches don't think they can yet.

But all in all - our 3 PT shooting and BVP/Carter combo kept us in it for awhile. We only had 5 turnovers. That's TREMENDOUS against UK's pressure and length.

Then there's this.

53 to 17.

Let me repeat that.

FIFTY THREE to MF 17!!!

Look, I get it. UK is bigger, stronger, faster. We weren't going to out-rebound them. They're one of the best rebounding teams in the country. We weren't likely even going to be within 5 or 10 on total rebounds. But 53 to 17? You can't get out-rebounded 5 to 1 and not expect to get blown out of the gym. Honestly I think this is where we missed Preston's length and 6'4 size. How many times did our bigs box out well, only for a long rebound to land in the hands of one of UK's wings or guards? This is a problem when you go 6'1 (Sears) 6'1 (Brown) and 6'5 (but plays smaller Roderick) across the back.

I said it last year after Creighton and I'll say it again after UK - the BIGGEST need on this team is a long/athletic 3 and D wing. Somebody in the 6'5-6'7 range with length. We have absolutely nobody on our roster that fits that, and didn't address it - and come tourney time these types of teams are taking advantage of it. Maybe not in the MAC, but I think our aspirations are/should be bigger than that.

Maybe DW3 makes a difference in a game like this come March. I sure hope so, because if not - we're in a world of hurt until we figure out a way to fix our rebounding and ability to guard bigger wings.

I'm not bailing on this team. Coach Boals will coach em up. Hopefully guys get healthy. This team will be a really good MAC team. Question is, can they make the jump to being a good NCAA tourney team? We're light years from that right now. Last night proved that. The "at large" and "Top 25 vote" talk should be put to rest. We've got 3 months to figure it out.

Last Edited: 11/20/2021 4:33:30 PM by GraffZ06

GroverBall
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RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Kentucky

Posted: 11/20/2021 8:04:05 PM

Phew, I'm just overjoyed that you have decided not to bail on this team after losing to Kentucky at Rupp. Phew.

GraffZ06
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RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Kentucky

Posted: 11/20/2021 8:28:55 PM

GroverBall wrote:

Phew, I'm just overjoyed that you have decided not to bail on this team after losing to Kentucky at Rupp. Phew.

Phew, I'm overjoyed that after reading all that, the above is the ONE thing you took away.

The one statement I added purposely for emphasis just to ensure people didn't take my assessments, criticisms and observations as meaning the season is lost just because we (expectedly) got beat at Rupp.

Phew.

GroverBall
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RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Kentucky

Posted: 11/20/2021 9:23:07 PM

Didn't realize you were hoping for a full breakdown:

"We hit 3s in the first half and didn't in the 2nd."

Yes, including some ridiculous threes by Ben that aren't always going to go down. In the second half we just didn't make shots period.

"Carter and BVP played as well as can be expected IMO. They can hang with that team. Sears "can" but looked like a Sophomore playing big minutes against a top 15 team for the first time in his career on some of those drives (because that's exactly what he is). He's got to learn a floater (ala Preston) or be able to hit a pull up jumper from the foul line, because his first step is deadly. He also needs to learn to finish at the rim through contact (easier said than done against length like UK) but 2-11 from the field isn't going to cut it from our top scorer."

BVP played an excellent first half, second not so much. Thought Jason might have down a better job in second half putting a body on Tshiebwe on some of those rebounds, even to just disrupt him a bit, he was getting to the ball too easily. I think Sears showed last year that he's an excellent finisher through contact, you're right Kentucky's length (and athleticism) bothered him I think but he also just did not have a good game shooting the ball.

"The game was 48-48 with 13 and change to play. We scored 11 freaking points in the final 13+ minutes. And like I said, 6 of those were from Clayton. You trying to tell me we could only score 5 points in 13 MINUTES minus Clayton?? Yeesh."

We missed open shots. Repeatedly. We knew coming in we would have to shoot well from three to be in this game. We didn't. And many of those were wide open.

"For as well as we played for 30 minutes, it's disheartening to end up blown out by 18. And it could have been 25. UK turned on the D, got their big back in the game, and we just shriveled like a frightened turtle."

Sorry, didn't see the shriveled frightened turtles. The shriveled frightened turtles I know turn the ball over. We took care of the ball. We missed shots and didn't get rebounds and they got defensive and offensive rebounds and made mid-range shots. Repeatedly.

"Inexplicably, down the stretch, we just REFUSED to drive to the paint and try to finish or draw fouls. I don't know if Tshiebwe's presence got into their heads and they were worried about getting their shot rejected, or they lost confidence from being frustrated (Sears) or what. But we just stopped. I think UK had 1 or 2 team fouls in the entire 2nd half. We full out stopped being aggressive on O. We set screens. We move without the ball. We share the ball well. All good things, but sometimes you have to do more than settle for hoisting 3s, even if they're good looks."

I think this is good analysis except for starting with inexplicably. We were definitely bothered by their length and athleticism and that made penetration extremely difficult. We are a team that is going to shoot a lot of threes and this game was no different. In the first half we made an acceptable number, in the second half we didn't and we couldn't keep them off the boards. We knew we would have to shoot well to be in this game.

"Tommy Schmock? Kid should be a walk-on. I mean that's essentially what he is. Walk-ons don't belong on the floor against top 15 teams. He looked WILDLY out of his league in all facets. In fact I cringed every time he checked in or touched the ball. I said it before and I'll say it again - this ain't Capital University. Welcome to big boy D1 basketball."

I diagree. I like this pick up by Boals. Yes, playing Kentucky at Rupp is a whole new ballgame. He missed two wide open threes, good shots I am confident he can hit. Roderick missed his also, but I expect them both to keep shooting and when their shots are going in different tunes will be sung in my opinion. He is an experienced backup to give Sears a breather, Sears will be running the show..

But all in all - our 3 PT shooting and BVP/Carter combo kept us in it for awhile. We only had 5 turnovers. That's TREMENDOUS against UK's pressure and length.

First half three point shooting kept us in it. I agree on the rest.

"Look, I get it. UK is bigger, stronger, faster. We weren't going to out-rebound them. They're one of the best rebounding teams in the country. We weren't likely even going to be within 5 or 10 on total rebounds. But 53 to 17? You can't get out-rebounded 5 to 1 and not expect to get blown out of the gym. Honestly I think this is where we missed Preston's length and 6'4 size. How many times did our bigs box out well, only for a long rebound to land in the hands of one of UK's wings or guards? This is a problem when you go 6'1 (Sears) 6'1 (Brown) and 6'5 (but plays smaller Roderick) across the back."

I agree rebounding was the difference, but I don't see Preston making much of a difference. Our bigs were not putting bodies on bodies in the paint. The difference is big, but 53-17 isn't 4 to 1 let alone 5 to 1. Much closer to 3 to 1, still a big difference, no need to exaggerate.

"I said it last year after Creighton and I'll say it again after UK - the BIGGEST need on this team is a long/athletic 3 and D wing. Somebody in the 6'5-6'7 range with length. We have absolutely nobody on our roster that fits that, and didn't address it - and come tourney time these types of teams are taking advantage of it. Maybe not in the MAC, but I think our aspirations are/should be bigger than that.

Maybe DW3 makes a difference in a game like this come March. I sure hope so, because if not - we're in a world of hurt until we figure out a way to fix our rebounding and ability to guard bigger wings."

Fine, but it is November and I'd love to see talk about Mount St. Mary's, Concordia and LSU rather than speculating about March.

"I'm not bailing on this team. Coach Boals will coach em up. Hopefully guys get healthy. This team will be a really good MAC team. Question is, can they make the jump to being a good NCAA tourney team? We're light years from that right now. Last night proved that. The "at large" and "Top 25 vote" talk should be put to rest. We've got 3 months to figure it out."

Again, glad you're not bailing. But I found that comment the most ridiculous thing in your post so that's why I choose it. It's November. Go Cats.

71 BOBCAT
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RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Kentucky

Posted: 11/21/2021 8:26:09 AM

GraffZO6 did a great job assessing the game.
I guess Boals comment about fatigue explains why we went 11 out of the final 14 minutes without any points.
The big 3 were very good.
Sears was not afraid to drive the lane and go toe to toe with their pt. guard and kept him under his averages. Great job.
We do need to find another reliable outside shooter.

GO BOBCATS

longtiimelurker
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RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Kentucky

Posted: 11/21/2021 11:06:57 AM

71 BOBCAT wrote:

Agreed on this. GraffZ06 offered up some good analysis.

Observations

-Pretty happy with Sears against a better UK team than they have presented for a few years. Controlled, pace, got down the lane without fear, still showed he has improvement to get to but their pressure is pretty intense. He's fine.

-Clayton has a really quick release. Looked like he is not quite ready to be getting big minutes vs big time opponents but flashes of skills and shooting prowess on display.

-I am not sure what JAG means (unless Catherine Bell is involved) but I agree those 2 need to be able to handle the ball and score if Sears is to get any rest. Not thinking Sears has DJ Cooper play all day chops.

-The difference between the MAC is Elite programs is Depth. Even with only 9 players available on the UK bench they were still deeper than Ohio at every position. By a mile. Ohio played well the first half and having the showcase player not defending the middle was everything they could have hoped for when drawing up a game plan. When legs get tired and home court kicks in (my friend thinks there is something about the rims on the other end since UK couldn't score the first half and Ohio couldn't get shots to drop the second) with crowd and the Rupp effect on visiting teams the wheels are going to come off.

Rebounding was going to be an issue as there is a difference in the athletes and wingspans. Ohio is actually the taller team according to KenPom at 76.7 vs 76.5 and both are down in the mid 200s as far as height and both are below the NCAA D-1 average, but those guys going to the rack at UK have lots of bounce and really big wingspans as well as superior quickness and speed. So "FIFTY THREE to MF 17!!!" is not surprising in the bigger picture. It would be interesting to see rebounds broken down by half and see how much of a difference the big in the middle made as opposed to when Brooks was playing the center spot.

I like where they are and do not find this to be as disheartening as the Kansas games over the years. Part of the challenge is to take away the lesson and get better. We will see.

longtiimelurker
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RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Kentucky

Posted: 11/21/2021 11:11:27 AM

MonroeClassmate wrote:

Turnover stat was Points Off Turnover 15-6. I will let you look up who had 15.

The long shot clocks playing defense were absolutely killer. Even with the rule only going to 20 on the clock it is a long time to keep going defensively.

GraffZ06
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RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Kentucky

Posted: 11/21/2021 12:59:19 PM

longtiimelurker wrote:

-I am not sure what JAG means (unless Catherine Bell is involved) but I agree those 2 need to be able to handle the ball and score if Sears is to get any rest. Not thinking Sears has DJ Cooper play all day chops.

JAG = Just A Guy. Aka nothing special/can get similar production from another guy or someone who you don't notice and blends into the background.

longtiimelurker wrote:

Rebounding was going to be an issue as there is a difference in the athletes and wingspans. Ohio is actually the taller team according to KenPom at 76.7 vs 76.5 and both are down in the mid 200s as far as height and both are below the NCAA D-1 average, but those guys going to the rack at UK have lots of bounce and really big wingspans as well as superior quickness and speed. So "FIFTY THREE to MF 17!!!" is not surprising in the bigger picture. It would be interesting to see rebounds broken down by half and see how much of a difference the big in the middle made as opposed to when Brooks was playing the center spot.

That's an interesting question. I remember looking at the screen at halftime and the rebounding was bad but didn't remember exactly what it was. So I went back through the PBP and counted. I could be off by one or something but I came up with:

First half: UK 26, OU 11
Second half: UK 27, OU 6

Some interesting notes on that. With 10:54 to go in 1st half and OU leading 22-14, the rebounding number was UK 10, OU 9.

We were out-rebounded 43-8 the rest of the way. That's almost unbelievable.

At that point in the first half we brought in the bench. UK promptly went on a 14-3 run taking a 28-25 lead to the 6 minute mark. In those 5 minutes they out-rebounded us 10-1 and our only rebound was a dead ball rebound.

Oddly to start the second half we tied them on rebounds 3-3 for the first 3 and a half minutes when we were up 44-42. They out-rebounded us 24-3 from there.

Jeff McKinney
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RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Kentucky

Posted: 11/21/2021 3:48:00 PM

Disagree with you, Graff, about Schmock. He's already shown he can play well against good competition-- Belmont, Cleveland State.

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