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Topic:  RE: Goodbye Concession Stands

Topic:  RE: Goodbye Concession Stands
Author
Message
Recovering Journalist
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Location: Cleveland, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Goodbye Concession Stands
   Posted: 1/14/2022 8:47:47 AM 
bornacatfan wrote:
Recovering Journalist wrote:
A little dose of reality for anyone still mourning fountain Pepsi and synthetic butter popcorn.

New record for COVID hospitalizations:

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-breaks-covid-19-hospi... /


Pretty much reflects our system "sheer number of infections caused by the Omicron variant could strain the hospital systems, some of which have already suspended elective procedures as they struggle to handle the surge of patients amid staff shortages." We have shut down all elective procedures ONCE AGAIN... can't get our regular patients in for regular diagnostic exams and getting a sprained ankle an X ray means sending them over to Radiology to sit for a few hours with the sick folks in the waiting area. OUr area of Indiana has low vaccination numbers and we regularly have 8 to 10 patients cancel daily as they are sick.

Our nurses in the OR are doing work in ICU and on the floors that they have not done since graduating nursing school. Their surgical skills have been honed to a high level for years but they are admitting they have not taken care of a patient in a bed for a decade or so and are not very comfy doing it.

I ventured down to Athens and went to the game. I would love to return but I am not sure it is such a great idea if I want to keep showing up to work and be able to get through a surgical schedule. Got to Jackie Os and gone before the crowd, stayed out of crowds and tried to keep my distance. Even stayed out of the bathrooms and missed the new hand dryers blowing COVID around. I enjoyed the visit and admit I thought about the proximity of folks while eating my popcorn. My epidemiology training weighing out distances and activity in front and behind me. I think this is a reasonable response. Athens is definitely more aware and masked than Lancaster, Columbus or other places we passed through going to and from.


Thanks for sharing the wisdom and perspective of someone actually working in the field. I've got friends working at the Cleveland Clinic who are describing awful conditions and staff at a breaking point. It's unseemly to see posters here crying about a couple hours of inconvenience during an optional entertainment activity while hospital staffs are drowning in sick and dying patients.
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Deciduous Forest Cat
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Location: Ohio
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  Message Not Read  RE: Goodbye Concession Stands
   Posted: 1/14/2022 12:46:07 PM 
Recovering Journalist wrote:
bornacatfan wrote:
Recovering Journalist wrote:
A little dose of reality for anyone still mourning fountain Pepsi and synthetic butter popcorn.

New record for COVID hospitalizations:

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-breaks-covid-19-hospi... /


Pretty much reflects our system "sheer number of infections caused by the Omicron variant could strain the hospital systems, some of which have already suspended elective procedures as they struggle to handle the surge of patients amid staff shortages." We have shut down all elective procedures ONCE AGAIN... can't get our regular patients in for regular diagnostic exams and getting a sprained ankle an X ray means sending them over to Radiology to sit for a few hours with the sick folks in the waiting area. OUr area of Indiana has low vaccination numbers and we regularly have 8 to 10 patients cancel daily as they are sick.

Our nurses in the OR are doing work in ICU and on the floors that they have not done since graduating nursing school. Their surgical skills have been honed to a high level for years but they are admitting they have not taken care of a patient in a bed for a decade or so and are not very comfy doing it.

I ventured down to Athens and went to the game. I would love to return but I am not sure it is such a great idea if I want to keep showing up to work and be able to get through a surgical schedule. Got to Jackie Os and gone before the crowd, stayed out of crowds and tried to keep my distance. Even stayed out of the bathrooms and missed the new hand dryers blowing COVID around. I enjoyed the visit and admit I thought about the proximity of folks while eating my popcorn. My epidemiology training weighing out distances and activity in front and behind me. I think this is a reasonable response. Athens is definitely more aware and masked than Lancaster, Columbus or other places we passed through going to and from.


Thanks for sharing the wisdom and perspective of someone actually working in the field. I've got friends working at the Cleveland Clinic who are describing awful conditions and staff at a breaking point. It's unseemly to see posters here crying about a couple hours of inconvenience during an optional entertainment activity while hospital staffs are drowning in sick and dying patients.


Yeah, but but but... freedom and guns!
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rpbobcat
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Member Since: 4/28/2006
Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
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  Message Not Read  RE: Goodbye Concession Stands
   Posted: 1/14/2022 2:13:00 PM 
Recovering Journalist wrote:


Thanks for sharing the wisdom and perspective of someone actually working in the field. I've got friends working at the Cleveland Clinic who are describing awful conditions and staff at a breaking point. It's unseemly to see posters here crying about a couple hours of inconvenience during an optional entertainment activity while hospital staffs are drowning in sick and dying patients.


Its amazing how conditions vary region to region, state to state and even hospital to hospital.

My wife and niece are both nurses in north Jersey.

My wife is a visiting nurse, my niece works on a floor.

Both have seen increases in the number of covid cases, but in their
cases, the increases are manageable.

Other places like Newark and Trenton are having a lot more problems.

Based on NJ's Health Commissioner ,there's roughly a 45% /65% spilt between
vaccinated and unvaccinated in hospitalizations.

But a much higher percentage of the unvaxed, who are hospitalized, end up in the ICU or on a vent then someone who is vaccinated.

Even if an unvaccinated person does end up in the ICU, they have a much faster recovery then in the past.
There is also, a lot less mortality thanks to the severity on Omicron and therapeutics.

N.J. has started separating covid hospitalizations based on whether a
person went to the hospital with covid symptoms or for something like a heart attack and tested positive.

Pretty much a 50/50 split.

What's also an issue is that only about 17% of young kids are getting vaccinated, even if their parents are.

At least in NJ we were seeing hospitalizations starting to drop.






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OhioCatFan
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Location: Athens, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Goodbye Concession Stands
   Posted: 1/14/2022 2:40:46 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
. . . What's also an issue is that only about 17% of young kids are getting vaccinated, even if their parents are.


Why is that an issue? If you follow the science kids are not at risk for Covid19. There have been less than 500 deaths in the 18 and under age cohort since the pandemic began out of 73-million in that demographic. Those children who have died of Covid19 have almost all had other serious underlying health issues. Also, study after study in this country and others around the world have shown that children very seldom spread Covid19 to parents or other adults. Why this is true is unknown, but the data is quite clear. When dealing with children it only makes sense to vaccinate those with known comordities. Harvey Risch, M.D., Ph.D., professor of epidemiology at Yale, and Jay Bhattacharya, M.D., Ph.D., professor medicine at Stanford, to name just a few well-credentialed doctors, have been speaking out against Covid19 vaccines for healthy children. Unfortunately, you'll be hard pressed to find their analysis on the interwebs because of the current drive to stamp out all dissenting opinions however well reasoned and fact-based.

Edit: Robert Malone, M.D., the man who developed and still holds patents on the mRNA technology used to manufacture the Pfizer and Moderna Covid19 vaccines, has done his own analysis and concluded that the risk/benefit cutoff is not age 18 but 30. He may or may not be correct in this assertion, but his voice needs to be heard by the general public, who can make up their own minds.

Last Edited: 1/14/2022 2:48:38 PM by OhioCatFan


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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rpbobcat
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Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
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  Message Not Read  RE: Goodbye Concession Stands
   Posted: 1/14/2022 3:06:53 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
. . . What's also an issue is that only about 17% of young kids are getting vaccinated, even if their parents are.


Why is that an issue? If you follow the science kids are not at risk for Covid19. There have been less than 500 deaths in the 18 and under age cohort since the pandemic began out of 73-million in that demographic. Those children who have died of Covid19 have almost all had other serious underlying health issues. Also, study after study in this country and others around the world have shown that children very seldom spread Covid19 to parents or other adults. Why this is true is unknown, but the data is quite clear. When dealing with children it only makes sense to vaccinate those with known comordities. Harvey Risch, M.D., Ph.D., professor of epidemiology at Yale, and Jay Bhattacharya, M.D., Ph.D., professor medicine at Stanford, to name just a few well-credentialed doctors, have been speaking out against Covid19 vaccines for healthy children. Unfortunately, you'll be hard pressed to find their analysis on the interwebs because of the current drive to stamp out all dissenting opinions however well reasoned and fact-based.

Edit: Robert Malone, M.D., the man who developed and still holds patents on the mRNA technology used to manufacture the Pfizer and Moderna Covid19 vaccines, has done his own analysis and concluded that the risk/benefit cutoff is not age 18 but 30. He may or may not be correct in this assertion, but his voice needs to be heard by the general public, who can make up their own minds.


Sorry, should have been clearer "What's also an issue that was raised by NJ's Health Commissioner is that only . . . ".

That percentage is staying pretty consistent.

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Recovering Journalist
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Location: Cleveland, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Goodbye Concession Stands
   Posted: 1/14/2022 3:18:01 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:


Edit: Robert Malone, M.D., the man who developed and still holds patents on the mRNA technology used to manufacture the Pfizer and Moderna Covid19 vaccines, has done his own analysis and concluded that the risk/benefit cutoff is not age 18 but 30. He may or may not be correct in this assertion, but his voice needs to be heard by the general public, who can make up their own minds.


Um... you might want to check your sources on that clown.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/rober... /
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Goodbye Concession Stands
   Posted: 1/14/2022 4:52:12 PM 
Recovering Journalist wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:


Edit: Robert Malone, M.D., the man who developed and still holds patents on the mRNA technology used to manufacture the Pfizer and Moderna Covid19 vaccines, has done his own analysis and concluded that the risk/benefit cutoff is not age 18 but 30. He may or may not be correct in this assertion, but his voice needs to be heard by the general public, who can make up their own minds.


Um... you might want to check your sources on that clown.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/rober... /


I didn't see that interview with Bannon, but what I have read from Dr. Malone is that he feels that in some age cohorts the vaccine is more likely to do damage from side effects (e.g., serious myocarditis in young men) than to protect against serious illness. I suspect that the Atlantic is either misquoting him or quoting him totally out of context. One of his major points recently has been trying to get his readers to understand the difference between relative risk and absolute risk. This makes a big different in how you assess the risk of individuals for serious cases of Covid19. My major point is that all voices need to be heard on this subject and let the individual make his or her own decision. For me, I've been vaxxed and boosted with Moderna's vaccine. I'm in an age group for which the evidence is pretty clear that that's the prudent decision.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Recovering Journalist
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Location: Cleveland, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Goodbye Concession Stands
   Posted: 1/14/2022 5:03:57 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Recovering Journalist wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:


Edit: Robert Malone, M.D., the man who developed and still holds patents on the mRNA technology used to manufacture the Pfizer and Moderna Covid19 vaccines, has done his own analysis and concluded that the risk/benefit cutoff is not age 18 but 30. He may or may not be correct in this assertion, but his voice needs to be heard by the general public, who can make up their own minds.


Um... you might want to check your sources on that clown.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/rober... /


I didn't see that interview with Bannon, but what I have read from Dr. Malone is that he feels that in some age cohorts the vaccine is more likely to do damage from side effects (e.g., serious myocarditis in young men) than to protect against serious illness. I suspect that the Atlantic is either misquoting him or quoting him totally out of context. One of his major points recently has been trying to get his readers to understand the difference between relative risk and absolute risk. This makes a big different in how you assess the risk of individuals for serious cases of Covid19. My major point is that all voices need to be heard on this subject and let the individual make his or her own decision. For me, I've been vaxxed and boosted with Moderna's vaccine. I'm in an age group for which the evidence is pretty clear that that's the prudent decision.


Maybe you'll listen to every chair of pediatrics in Florida instead of a verified conspiracy theorist, but I'm not holding my breath.

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/opinion/2022/01/14/pe... /
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Goodbye Concession Stands
   Posted: 1/14/2022 5:26:44 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
I suspect that the Atlantic is either misquoting him or quoting him totally out of context.


Which quotes do you think are misquoted and out of context?
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gedunkman
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  Message Not Read  RE: Goodbye Concession Stands
   Posted: 1/15/2022 12:26:23 AM 
The Optimist wrote:
OUcats82 wrote:
My apologies if I missed this in the thread already, but how are they managing all of the on-campus dining halls?


If the administration really cared about the health of students, they'd ban soda pop in the dining halls and stop selling junk food in the on-campus markets to focus on healthier options.

We all (well at least some of us) know that won't happen because the "health mandate" banning concession stands has absolutely nothing to do with "health" at all.


Also, I would assume that we require evidence HPV vaccination before a student is admitted. This is a very important health and safety measure for young adults.
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Bobcat16
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  Message Not Read  RE: Goodbye Concession Stands
   Posted: 1/15/2022 2:46:15 AM 
Recovering Journalist wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:


Edit: Robert Malone, M.D., the man who developed and still holds patents on the mRNA technology used to manufacture the Pfizer and Moderna Covid19 vaccines, has done his own analysis and concluded that the risk/benefit cutoff is not age 18 but 30. He may or may not be correct in this assertion, but his voice needs to be heard by the general public, who can make up their own minds.


Um... you might want to check your sources on that clown.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/rober... /


At the bottom of this article it says that The Atlantic's covid coverage is sponsored by a foundation associated with Johnson & Johnson. I am genuinely curious as to whether or not this leads to biased reporting. I think it's fair to say that it is in J&J's best interest to call someone like Dr. Malone misinformation.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Goodbye Concession Stands
   Posted: 1/15/2022 10:57:45 AM 
Bobcat16 wrote:
Recovering Journalist wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:


Edit: Robert Malone, M.D., the man who developed and still holds patents on the mRNA technology used to manufacture the Pfizer and Moderna Covid19 vaccines, has done his own analysis and concluded that the risk/benefit cutoff is not age 18 but 30. He may or may not be correct in this assertion, but his voice needs to be heard by the general public, who can make up their own minds.


Um... you might want to check your sources on that clown.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/rober... /


At the bottom of this article it says that The Atlantic's covid coverage is sponsored by a foundation associated with Johnson & Johnson. I am genuinely curious as to whether or not this leads to biased reporting. I think it's fair to say that it is in J&J's best interest to call someone like Dr. Malone misinformation.


The state of discourse and thought in the US is pretty bleak. This conversation is a good example. Instead of engaging with the subject at hand and looking at available information, everybody wants to have a meta conversation about media sources.

If you don't trust the media, why not look at the source material?
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Goodbye Concession Stands
   Posted: 1/15/2022 11:07:36 AM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
. . . What's also an issue is that only about 17% of young kids are getting vaccinated, even if their parents are.


Edit: Robert Malone, M.D., the man who developed and still holds patents on the mRNA technology used to manufacture the Pfizer and Moderna Covid19 vaccines, has done his own analysis and concluded that the risk/benefit cutoff is not age 18 but 30. He may or may not be correct in this assertion, but his voice needs to be heard by the general public, who can make up their own minds.


I don't understand what this means. "His voice needs to be heard" -- why? And through what mediums? Clearly his voice is being heard, as you're telling us about it. He's also appeared on tons of podcasts; the problem is that in the process he keeps saying demonstrably false things.

Some examples:

-- He tweeted an article claiming the vaccine causes 2 deaths for every 3 it saves. That study has been debunked and ultimately retracted due to flawed methodology.
-- He claimed spike proteins generated by the vaccine are "toxic to cells"
-- He claimed those spike proteins cause irreparable harm to vital organs in children
-- He's repeated an easily debunked conspiracy theory that the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines have not been approved in the US
-- He claimed in July that the vaccine causes the virus to become more transmissible and vaccinated people create a risk to the unvaccinated.
-- He repeatedly mentions a misinterpretation of data from the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System cited by Tucker Carlson indicating "an explosion of deaths from the vaccine" that there's no evidence of.
-- He claimed a state in India "crushed Covid" using ivermectin, and then reached an agreement with the United States not to share that information.
-- He claimed vaccinated people are 4.5x more likely to catch Omicron. Here's he's just failing basic math and looking at cases, without comparing the size of the unvaccinated population to the size of the vaccinated population.

It's very unclear to me what you mean when you say that he "needs to be heard by the general public" when he's a dissenting voice, in a context where there's much greater medical consensus supporting a different viewpoint, and he has such a long history of dubious claims. How does one decide what it means to be heard by the general public, how the message is disseminated, and which dissenting opinions get that treatment?

I also noticed that your edited out the only specific example (myocarditis) from your post. I assume that's because you realized that mRNA vaccines increase the risk by 4x, where as Covid infections increase the risk by 40x.

So very specifically, are the risks Malone cites and what data supports them? I get you're much more interested in your meta critique of the media, but it's not clear to me that media outlets largely ignoring him at this point isn't the right choice. What's the case they shouldn't? I think he's just out there saying what a whole bunch of people want to hear, and so people like Steve Bannon, Tucker Carlson, et al who immediately benefit from telling their audience what they want to hear amplify a credentialed Doctor who is willing to say those things. Even if he's wrong.

Last Edited: 1/15/2022 12:04:07 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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bornacatfan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Goodbye Concession Stands
   Posted: 1/15/2022 12:39:27 PM 
Really?

You are going to use facts?

WOW!

Is that all ya got???? Facts? I mean .....c'mon !!!!


( in my best Allen Iverson voice)


never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game

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GroverBall
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  Message Not Read  RE: Goodbye Concession Stands
   Posted: 1/15/2022 1:22:05 PM 
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/15/health/mrna-vaccine.html

Good article on the origins of mRNVA research in today's NYT. FWIW no mention of Malone, however Kariko is referenced about a dozen times.
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Recovering Journalist
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Location: Cleveland, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Goodbye Concession Stands
   Posted: 1/15/2022 3:59:54 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Bobcat16 wrote:
Recovering Journalist wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:


Edit: Robert Malone, M.D., the man who developed and still holds patents on the mRNA technology used to manufacture the Pfizer and Moderna Covid19 vaccines, has done his own analysis and concluded that the risk/benefit cutoff is not age 18 but 30. He may or may not be correct in this assertion, but his voice needs to be heard by the general public, who can make up their own minds.


Um... you might want to check your sources on that clown.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/rober... /


At the bottom of this article it says that The Atlantic's covid coverage is sponsored by a foundation associated with Johnson & Johnson. I am genuinely curious as to whether or not this leads to biased reporting. I think it's fair to say that it is in J&J's best interest to call someone like Dr. Malone misinformation.


The state of discourse and thought in the US is pretty bleak. This conversation is a good example. Instead of engaging with the subject at hand and looking at available information, everybody wants to have a meta conversation about media sources.

If you don't trust the media, why not look at the source material?

Yup. Itís exhausting. The Atlantic has won a Pulitzer for its coronavirus coverage, but Iím sure that means nothing (or is proof of some nefarious doings) to the InfoWars clan that lurks around here. As someone who studied and practiced journalism for years and still works in communications, the triumph of misinformation and specious ďauthoritiesĒ deeply saddens me.
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bornacatfan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Goodbye Concession Stands
   Posted: 1/15/2022 11:54:44 PM 
Dovetailing off my previous comments is this Muncie Star article on the state of our state's healthcare leader, IU Health. Good summary reflecting what we see at work.

https://www.thestarpress.com/story/news/health/2022/01/13...


never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game

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