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Topic:  Whitesell Out

Topic:  Whitesell Out
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JSF
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  Message Not Read  Whitesell Out
   Posted: 3/11/2023 12:02:39 PM 
Deserves its own thread. Correct move; I知 surprised they pulled the trigger. For the record, nobody is interested if you were to be asked for any money as a UB alumnus.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/3...


"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Whitesell Out
   Posted: 3/11/2023 12:06:13 PM 
JSF wrote:
Deserves its own thread. Correct move; I知 surprised they pulled the trigger. For the record, nobody is interested if you were to be asked for any money as a UB alumnus.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/3...


Surprised they ate the cash as well but judging by the score differential down the stretch...looks like a player mutiny to me. They need to throw everything at Hodgson to bring him back. It should have been the hire from the get go when Oats left.


#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Whitesell Out
   Posted: 3/11/2023 12:09:58 PM 
I'm glad. If the MAC is ever going to take a step up as a basketball league, the top programs need to insist on a very high bar. Buffalo is probably the best job in the conference with the highest ceiling. Good that their AD isn't accepting mediocrity.
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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Whitesell Out
   Posted: 3/11/2023 12:13:44 PM 
Disagree. Toledo a much better job. Ohio might even be a better job. Buffaloans care about 1.) Bills, 2.) Sabres, 3.) Beer/wings



Last Edited: 3/11/2023 12:14:56 PM by SBH

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Victory
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  Message Not Read  RE: Whitesell Out
   Posted: 3/11/2023 1:04:06 PM 
I have seen the MAC jobs ranked many times over the past 25 years and Ohio has been most often listed as the best job though being in Athens in the NIL era might be a handicap. People always talk about markets with college jobs but it never seems to matter as with big markets come pro teams, minor league teams, multiple colleges, and many entertainment options outside of sports. Maybe with NIL the decades long prophecy that market size matter might become more true. Who knows,
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Whitesell Out
   Posted: 3/11/2023 1:17:09 PM 
SBH wrote:
Disagree. Toledo a much better job. Ohio might even be a better job. Buffaloans care about 1.) Bills, 2.) Sabres, 3.) Beer/wings




The population of Buffalo, the fact that they're increasingly seen as the best state school in a large state, give Buffalo a lot of upside. They'll likely be the next MAC school to move into a bigger conference.

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Whitesell Out
   Posted: 3/11/2023 1:18:02 PM 
Victory wrote:
I have seen the MAC jobs ranked many times over the past 25 years and Ohio has been most often listed as the best job though being in Athens in the NIL era might be a handicap. People always talk about markets with college jobs but it never seems to matter as with big markets come pro teams, minor league teams, multiple colleges, and many entertainment options outside of sports. Maybe with NIL the decades long prophecy that market size matter might become more true. Who knows,


Take a look at the schools that have moved up to better athletic conferences over the last decade, then tell me if you think market size doesn't matter.
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Victory
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  Message Not Read  RE: Whitesell Out
   Posted: 3/11/2023 1:27:36 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Victory wrote:
I have seen the MAC jobs ranked many times over the past 25 years and Ohio has been most often listed as the best job though being in Athens in the NIL era might be a handicap. People always talk about markets with college jobs but it never seems to matter as with big markets come pro teams, minor league teams, multiple colleges, and many entertainment options outside of sports. Maybe with NIL the decades long prophecy that market size matter might become more true. Who knows,


Take a look at the schools that have moved up to better athletic conferences over the last decade, then tell me if you think market size doesn't matter.


Believe me, I am aware of that. It clearly mattered to the people making those moves because they were often going over more successful departments. CLEARLY, the perception that it mattered to success was out there as I was saying. But if it mattered so much then why weren't they already more successful?
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Whitesell Out
   Posted: 3/11/2023 1:48:25 PM 
Victory wrote:
[QUOTE=Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame]

Believe me, I am aware of that. It clearly mattered to the people making those moves because they were often going over more successful departments. CLEARLY, the perception that it mattered to success was out there as I was saying. But if it mattered so much then why weren't they already more successful?


How are you defining success? Wins & Losses?

I am far from an expert on this, but my mental model for this is that market size is relevant for TV deals and basically conferences have been trying to amass as many eyeballs as possible.

It's why San Diego State moves up despite mediocre on field/court results. It's explains basically every team in the American conference, a whole bunch of them are new to the conference (Wichita State, Tulsa, South Florida). It's why the Atlantic 10 added schools from Richmond, DC, and Chicago.

To have any upward mobility you need to either be in a major market or in a mid-size city and have it to yourself. And financially, you basically immediately benefit because you get more TV money. Unfortunately, Ohio is just never going to be all that attractive for that reason.

Last Edited: 3/11/2023 1:52:19 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Whitesell Out
   Posted: 3/11/2023 3:00:55 PM 
Populations of Buffalo and Toledo are about the same. Toledoans highly vested in UT. Not true of UB.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Whitesell Out
   Posted: 3/11/2023 3:47:33 PM 
SBH wrote:
Populations of Buffalo and Toledo are about the same. Toledoans highly vested in UT. Not true of UB.


The population of the greater Buffalo area is almost 2x that of Toledo. Buffalo's metro area's about 1.1m. Toledo's is 600k.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_statistical_...
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Victory
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  Message Not Read  RE: Whitesell Out
   Posted: 3/11/2023 5:54:49 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Victory wrote:
[QUOTE=Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame]

Believe me, I am aware of that. It clearly mattered to the people making those moves because they were often going over more successful departments. CLEARLY, the perception that it mattered to success was out there as I was saying. But if it mattered so much then why weren't they already more successful?


How are you defining success? Wins & Losses?

I am far from an expert on this, but my mental model for this is that market size is relevant for TV deals and basically conferences have been trying to amass as many eyeballs as possible.

It's why San Diego State moves up despite mediocre on field/court results. It's explains basically every team in the American conference, a whole bunch of them are new to the conference (Wichita State, Tulsa, South Florida). It's why the Atlantic 10 added schools from Richmond, DC, and Chicago.

To have any upward mobility you need to either be in a major market or in a mid-size city and have it to yourself. And financially, you basically immediately benefit because you get more TV money. Unfortunately, Ohio is just never going to be all that attractive for that reason.



Yes, wins and losses were the primary thing I was speaking of. And, yes, it is obvious that if you play in a higher profile conference your attendance increases. And it is obvious that higher profile conferences consider marker in who they want to add to their conference. But what, to me, is not obvious is that being in a bigger market, among schools that are currently in approximately in the same profile of conference have over the past few decades been helped by their market in trying to field winners. Nor, and I have loosely paid attention to this when going though scores, that if two schools are in the same profile conference and are having fairly even teams, that the school in the larger market will likely draw more in attendance. I have not noticed that as a thing that happens.

Now, I would be the first to say that even though I have intentionally paid attention to this in the past that getting data to make decisions this way is a good way to study such issues. To know if that is true would take a much more rigorously designed study than one guy just perusing in his leisure time. I also can't speak hardly at all to TV ratings with schools and teams in similar circumstances.

Also, even if it doesn't help you win or draw well while in are in a lesser conference is the proof that a large market DOES relatively help once you are in a high profile conference. That could also be true. My instinct tells me that there isn't a lot of evidence that that is true either. If you want to tell me that there ARE rigorous studies that show that show that conferences have good evidence that taking big market schools will help them succeed once they move relative to a small market and that causality ISN'T the other way that larger markets are succeeding more lately simply because they are more likely to move up then I'll believe you because I don't know myself of rigorously accrued data on this.
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Pete Chouteau
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  Message Not Read  RE: Whitesell Out
   Posted: 3/11/2023 9:42:45 PM 
Buffalo has been looking for a ticket out of this conference for 25 years and it hasn't come yet. Tilting at windmills. Endearing themselves to the other 11.

There's good options without inviting collateral damage from the impending Oats trainwreck. Dunleavy at Quinnipiac would be a good get.
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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: Whitesell Out
   Posted: 3/11/2023 10:33:57 PM 
FearLeon wrote:
JSF wrote:
Deserves its own thread. Correct move; I知 surprised they pulled the trigger. For the record, nobody is interested if you were to be asked for any money as a UB alumnus.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/3...


Surprised they ate the cash as well but judging by the score differential down the stretch...looks like a player mutiny to me.


Wait, what?


"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Whitesell Out
   Posted: 3/11/2023 10:36:46 PM 
JSF wrote:
FearLeon wrote:
JSF wrote:
Deserves its own thread. Correct move; I知 surprised they pulled the trigger. For the record, nobody is interested if you were to be asked for any money as a UB alumnus.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/3...


Surprised they ate the cash as well but judging by the score differential down the stretch...looks like a player mutiny to me.


Wait, what?


Translation: These Bulls didn稚 play too hard down the stretch for their coach. Whitesell was awful.


#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: Whitesell Out
   Posted: 3/11/2023 10:39:39 PM 
Gotcha. I look at UB Fan on occasion and they soured on him quickly.


"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

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longtiimelurker
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  Message Not Read  RE: Whitesell Out
   Posted: 3/12/2023 10:41:42 AM 
And that brings an end to a 60+ page thread started in 2020 on the UB fansite. It is curious that with Huger and Whitesell leaving, that brings into focus the reality that all schools not named Kent, Toledo, Ohio, and Akron have changed coaches in the past 2 years in an attempt to catch up to the benchmark set by those 4. Out of curiosity. Are we still the only program to advance in the Dance?
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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Whitesell Out
   Posted: 3/12/2023 11:03:29 AM 
Buffalo beat Arizona and Arizona State in NCAA tourney during Oats last two years.


#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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GraffZ06
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  Message Not Read  RE: Whitesell Out
   Posted: 3/12/2023 11:44:29 AM 
longtiimelurker wrote:
Out of curiosity. Are we still the only program to advance in the Dance?


Recently or ever? MAC has a bunch of NCAA tourney wins. Miami went to sweet 16 with Wally Szczerbiak. Kent St went to Elite 8 in early 2000s.
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CatsUp
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  Message Not Read  RE: Whitesell Out
   Posted: 3/12/2023 1:20:08 PM 
GraffZ06 wrote:
longtiimelurker wrote:
Out of curiosity. Are we still the only program to advance in the Dance?


Recently or ever? MAC has a bunch of NCAA tourney wins. Miami went to sweet 16 with Wally Szczerbiak. Kent St went to Elite 8 in early 2000s.


The Rick Majerus led Ball State Cardinals went to the Sweet 16 in 1990. They lost by two points to eventual champion UNLV whose next closest win was by nine against Georgia Tech. UNLV 田urb stomped a name-laden Duke team in the championship game.
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Cellis033
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  Message Not Read  RE: Whitesell Out
   Posted: 3/12/2023 6:15:29 PM 
CatsUp wrote:
GraffZ06 wrote:
longtiimelurker wrote:
Out of curiosity. Are we still the only program to advance in the Dance?


Recently or ever? MAC has a bunch of NCAA tourney wins. Miami went to sweet 16 with Wally Szczerbiak. Kent St went to Elite 8 in early 2000s.


The Rick Majerus led Ball State Cardinals went to the Sweet 16 in 1990. They lost by two points to eventual champion UNLV whose next closest win was by nine against Georgia Tech. UNLV 田urb stomped a name-laden Duke team in the championship game.


Eastern Mich defeated Duke in 1996. Akron has never won in 4 Dance appearances.


Chase
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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: Whitesell Out
   Posted: 3/12/2023 7:17:14 PM 
Pete Chouteau wrote:
Buffalo has been looking for a ticket out of this conference for 25 years and it hasn't come yet. Tilting at windmills. Endearing themselves to the other 11.


Half the problem is everything else has become so lousy. A10 and MVC only had 1 representative each this year (#12 VCU, #12 Drake). A10 has 15 teams to split the revenue and MVC has 12. Horizon League supplied a #16 with Northern Kentucky.

AAC has #1 Houston & #8 Memphis but Houston is leaving. To replace #9 Florida Atlantic is joining to keep it a 2 bid league for 14 teams. But the AAC is so expensive to compete in and doesn't compensate enough.

P5 is stupid now too with UCLA and Maryland in the same conference. BYU and West Virginia in the same conference. Too large and no path to win the conference unless a blueblood program. The ACC is relatively normal but Buffalo isn't going there with Syracuse in it.

MAC basketball is like splitting 1 bid four ways because its Kent, Akron, Buffalo and Ohio earning that bid every year. Toledo for all its competitiveness hasn't done it once. If I'm Buffalo do I see it as a situation where I can be in the mix every year for a bid as OU by having some advantages in the MAC? Ability to travel big to the conference tournament. I watched the that title game between Kent and Toledo and looked great on TV.


Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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