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Topic:  "Cleveland Guardians"

Topic:  "Cleveland Guardians"
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greencat
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  Message Not Read  "Cleveland Guardians"
   Posted: 7/24/2021 11:23:30 PM 
How many people in Cleveland don't even know where this name originated?

There are people in Cleveland that don't know where the name "Browns" originated from. I actually saw comments from right wing nut-jobs that thought it was something to do with race and claimed that "if the Indians had to change their name..." (will spare you the fox news hyperbole they also spewed)
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Club Hyatt
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Cleveland Guardians"
   Posted: 7/25/2021 9:58:40 AM 
If they are going with such a radically different name I'd like to see a radically different logo to go with it.


Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Cleveland Guardians"
   Posted: 7/25/2021 1:53:35 PM 
And it's taken just one day for a public official (the new Portage County sheriff as a member of the "silent majority") to get in hot water for using official social media to criticize the name change. He criticized placating what he called a vocal few.

I did see a headline where somebody criticized the new "cartoon" logo.

They're not going to please everyone. I thought the Washington Wizards was an ill-advised replacement for the Bullets, given the KKK's use of "wizard" through the years, but it's been more than 25 years since the name change and people in DC seem ok with it. (I wanted "DC Lotteries" because their odds of winning an NBA championship were 1 in 1.3 million.)


We will get by.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Cleveland Guardians"
   Posted: 7/25/2021 2:44:34 PM 

I was hoping for the Cleveland Spiders, which if you know your baseball history has significance and relevance up there on the Mistake on the Lake.  But, I guess in the end they were too afraid of charges of arachnophobia.sadcheeky


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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CatsUp
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Cleveland Guardians"
   Posted: 7/25/2021 3:26:18 PM 
Id have preferred the 48ers myself. :)
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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Cleveland Guardians"
   Posted: 7/28/2021 4:34:12 PM 
I'm from Cleveland and I always loved Chief Wahoo. But after seeing protests and listening to the point of view of native American people, I changed my mind about the subject. Races and nationalities should not be used for team nicknames and mascots. Plus, I can't completely understand what they've gone through. I'm Polish and Slovak and I think about what if they named the team after my nationality using a stereotypical mascot? I'm sure I wouldn't like it.

Regarding the right wing point of view against the name change, I say : this is America! You own the team, you can change the name.
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UpSan Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Cleveland Guardians"
   Posted: 7/28/2021 10:59:37 PM 
giacomo wrote:
I'm from Cleveland and I always loved Chief Wahoo. But after seeing protests and listening to the point of view of native American people, I changed my mind about the subject. Races and nationalities should not be used for team nicknames and mascots. Plus, I can't completely understand what they've gone through. I'm Polish and Slovak and I think about what if they named the team after my nationality using a stereotypical mascot? I'm sure I wouldn't like it.

Regarding the right wing point of view against the name change, I say : this is America! You own the team, you can change the name.


I agree with you. I always hear people say things like, "Most Cleveland fans didn't want a name change, so why should they change?" Well, there are very few Cleveland fans who are the subject of the stereotype. Those are the people who should have a say, and by far, their reaction of Native Americans has been that the name change is long overdue.
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Recovering Journalist
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Cleveland Guardians"
   Posted: 7/29/2021 10:23:55 AM 
A name change was long overdue. While I was strongly in favor of Spiders myself, I can get behind Guardians. The logos and font, however? Good god, do those reek of design-by-committee and a nightmare client who won't let a professional do their work. I can just hear the meetings...

Client: "OK, I like the Art Deco "G" but how will people know it's a baseball team? Can you just add a baseball?"

Designer: "Ummm, I can do whatever you want, but the simple logo was..."

Client: "Oh! I almost forgot. It needs TWO wings, like a bird, otherwise it can't fly! Put another winged G on the other side of the baseball, like a sandwich!"

Designer: "You might want to consider..."

Client: "Just do it!"
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Cleveland Guardians"
   Posted: 7/29/2021 7:56:27 PM 
Apparently there may be a problem with the name.

According to the sports stations out here,there's a roller derby team named the Cleveland Guardians.

Shouldn't somebody have known about this ?

Looks like the the Indians also "borrowed" the roller derby team's logo.


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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Cleveland Guardians"
   Posted: 8/12/2021 10:21:52 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Apparently there may be a problem with the name.

According to the sports stations out here,there's a roller derby team named the Cleveland Guardians.

Shouldn't somebody have known about this ?

Looks like the the Indians also "borrowed" the roller derby team's logo.




The roller derby team is an amateur team that's been in existence for over ten years but apparently hasn't competed since 2018 (according to their website) or maybe January 2020 (according to their Facebook page). They still continue to promote team merchandise. One problem is that they have never filed for a trademark, so it wouldn't have shown up in a trademark search, although Googling would have alerted the baseball team to their existence. Still, trademark law recognizes "first to use" rather than "first to file" so the baseball team will need to reckon with them. Given their status, they probably can be bought out for a few thousand dollars.


We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Cleveland Guardians"
   Posted: 8/13/2021 9:52:37 AM 
Having had firsthand experience dealing with the Indians administration on behalf of a MAJOR, longtime corporate partner, I can tell you they are about as unsophisticated as you can get. Nightmare to work with - nothing but college interns and people who should still be college interns.

Last Edited: 8/13/2021 10:34:22 AM by SBH

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Cleveland Guardians"
   Posted: 8/13/2021 10:52:46 PM 
SBH wrote:
Having had firsthand experience dealing with the Indians administration on behalf of a MAJOR, longtime corporate partner, I can tell you they are about as unsophisticated as you can get. Nightmare to work with - nothing but college interns and people who should still be college interns.



Sort of like the OHIO AD's office, eh?


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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spongeBOB CATpants
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Cleveland Guardians"
   Posted: 8/16/2021 11:50:27 AM 
SBH wrote:
Having had firsthand experience dealing with the Indians administration on behalf of a MAJOR, longtime corporate partner, I can tell you they are about as unsophisticated as you can get. Nightmare to work with - nothing but college interns and people who should still be college interns.



Out of curiosity, do you happen to remember the titles the people you worked with held?

I was in the front office of an MLB team as my first gig out of college. Seems a little odd they would have college interns handling account management of a major account. The team I worked for had interns or entry level employees working as lead generation and would most certainly pass off any major account/prospective account to a senior level associate.

But they also heavily underpay employees that aren't high level execs or players so this also wouldn't surprise me to see a team that would use an intern in this manner.
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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Cleveland Guardians"
   Posted: 8/16/2021 12:33:27 PM 
Some were/are very high in the organization. As I wrote, however, they should still be college interns based on past experience.

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spongeBOB CATpants
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Cleveland Guardians"
   Posted: 8/17/2021 9:47:44 AM 
SBH wrote:
Some were/are very high in the organization. As I wrote, however, they should still be college interns based on past experience.



Sounds like they should rebrand the front office along with the name. Winning organizations win in every facet of the business. No wonder its been a over half a century since the last World Series.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Cleveland Guardians"
   Posted: 8/17/2021 11:01:47 AM 
spongeBOB CATpants wrote:
SBH wrote:
Some were/are very high in the organization. As I wrote, however, they should still be college interns based on past experience.



Sounds like they should rebrand the front office along with the name. Winning organizations win in every facet of the business. No wonder its been a over half a century since the last World Series.


They've been in a World Series fairly recently:

https://tinyurl.com/c5u8yuf4

Go Cubs! ;-)


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Cleveland Guardians"
   Posted: 8/17/2021 1:07:48 PM 
spongeBOB CATpants wrote:
SBH wrote:
Some were/are very high in the organization. As I wrote, however, they should still be college interns based on past experience.



Sounds like they should rebrand the front office along with the name. Winning organizations win in every facet of the business. No wonder its been a over half a century since the last World Series.


I thought there was one just a few months ago.


"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

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spongeBOB CATpants
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Cleveland Guardians"
   Posted: 8/17/2021 4:11:19 PM 
JSF wrote:
spongeBOB CATpants wrote:
SBH wrote:
Some were/are very high in the organization. As I wrote, however, they should still be college interns based on past experience.



Sounds like they should rebrand the front office along with the name. Winning organizations win in every facet of the business. No wonder its been a over half a century since the last World Series.


I thought there was one just a few months ago.


Sorry, I worded that funny. I meant maybe the front office needs some fresh talent that's willing to step on the gas instead of giving half-ass effort to major accounts.

A lot of teams keep their managers/directors/VPs on the business side around for a longgggg time. They naturally get complacent and you end up with unhappy partners.
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Cleveland Guardians"
   Posted: 10/28/2021 10:38:27 PM 
Negotiations between the roller derby team and the baseball team over use of the name, logos, website, etc. have broken down and the skaters have sued the baseball team in federal court. According to the lawsuit the baseball team offered "a nominal amount, no more than fifteen minutes of annual team revenue." Not sure which team they're talking about. It's unclear who's trying to rob whom here. Maybe it's a two-way robbery. It's also interesting that the baseball team filed both of its trademark applications from the African island nation of Mauritius to try and keep the applications secret. https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/mlb/indians/cleveland...


We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Cleveland Guardians"
   Posted: 10/30/2021 7:17:21 PM 
Do what you gotta do to increase that settlement $$$.


"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

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The Optimist
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Cleveland Guardians"
   Posted: 10/31/2021 8:55:30 AM 
I don't really care about the name. I do care that the Dolans (owners) are not committed to winning.

Their priority is to promote a "family friendly" atmosphere.

Oh well, baseball is boring anyway...


I've seen crazier things happen.

Black 41 Flash Reverse

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spongeBOB CATpants
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Cleveland Guardians"
   Posted: 11/1/2021 12:34:01 PM 
The World Series really has me annoyed. How can Manfred be ok with 41k fans doing the "Chop" and chant after pressuring Cleveland to change the name for years?

Then, the Former Guy shows up and is participating in the chop with military level precision. I've never seen him move with such purpose but I suppose he couldn't pass up the opportunity to publicly participate in a racist chant on national tv.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Cleveland Guardians"
   Posted: 11/1/2021 12:41:17 PM 
I truthfully don't care a ton about the chop.

My general feeling is that if Native American groups insist they find it offensive, were I in charge of MLB/The Braves, I'd defer to them and put a stop to it. But I don't think its intention is one of racism, and think that for the average Braves fan the tradition of the chop probably outweighs the historical insensitivity.

That said, Trump went to that game solely to try and turn this into a political wedge issue and further inflame the culture war. Way back during the Colin Kaepernick nonsense, a common refrain was that opposition to Kaepernick about ensuring sports remained an apolitical space, and wanting to be able to turn on the TV Sundays and not think about politics. Those same people should feel the same about this.

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spongeBOB CATpants
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Cleveland Guardians"
   Posted: 11/1/2021 1:02:29 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
I truthfully don't care a ton about the chop.

My general feeling is that if Native American groups insist they find it offensive, were I in charge of MLB/The Braves, I'd defer to them and put a stop to it. But I don't think its intention is one of racism, and think that for the average Braves fan the tradition of the chop probably outweighs the historical insensitivity.

That said, Trump went to that game solely to try and turn this into a political wedge issue and further inflame the culture war. Way back during the Colin Kaepernick nonsense, a common refrain was that opposition to Kaepernick about ensuring sports remained an apolitical space, and wanting to be able to turn on the TV Sundays and not think about politics. Those same people should feel the same about this.



I didn't care about the chop either until it was announced that Cleveland would do away with the nickname. I think its unfair and the MLB should've pressured every team with a Native American theme to rebrand, not pick and choose which teams they felt were "truly racist"

To your second point, I couldn't agree more. When I worked for an MLB team, I fielded a ton of calls with fans outraged because they caught wind of a donation to a political party that the owner of the team made. Every call the pissed off fans would say "I come to games to get away from politics"

Now that same side that was pissed off then, are heard chanting Let's Go Brandon and FJB at every sporting event. Total hypocrisy.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Cleveland Guardians"
   Posted: 11/1/2021 1:49:55 PM 
spongeBOB CATpants wrote:


I didn't care about the chop either until it was announced that Cleveland would do away with the nickname. I think its unfair and the MLB should've pressured every team with a Native American theme to rebrand, not pick and choose which teams they felt were "truly racist"

To your second point, I couldn't agree more. When I worked for an MLB team, I fielded a ton of calls with fans outraged because they caught wind of a donation to a political party that the owner of the team made. Every call the pissed off fans would say "I come to games to get away from politics"

Now that same side that was pissed off then, are heard chanting Let's Go Brandon and FJB at every sporting event. Total hypocrisy.


To what extent did MLB pressure Cleveland? I didn't follow the story all that closely, though for what it's worth Braves definitely carries a more positive connotation than Indians, and the Chief Wahoo logo and it's variations over the years is pretty hard to justify. I think there are plenty of shades of gray in this discussion.
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