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Topic:  RE: Record Freshman Class and OU Runs Out of Dorms?

Topic:  RE: Record Freshman Class and OU Runs Out of Dorms?
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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Record Freshman Class and OU Runs Out of Dorms?
   Posted: 9/16/2022 11:21:24 AM 
Fantastic idea. Did you share it with the Powers That Be?

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Record Freshman Class and OU Runs Out of Dorms?
   Posted: 9/16/2022 11:53:06 AM 
BLSS:

1. I don’t know that you explicitly used the terms “modern financing and fiscal management” but that seemed to be an implication in what you were saying in some of your posts on the subject. I drew the clear inference that you thought that I was not coming to grips with superiors ways of the modern business world as it applies to higher education.

2. What you seem to forget about my statements about Scott Quard was that I not only thought this specific building was worth saving because it was the only building of its type on the OHIO campus, but also because it was part of the long history dating back 50 years of the University tearing down historic buildings that were very questionable decisions. Here’s a partial list: Old Tupper Hall, which was the original university chapel, dating back to the first half of the 19th Century; Ewing Hall, a classic old building, that along with Old Tupper and Culter created in words of one member of the fine arts faculty, “the most aesthetic space on campus;” Old Morton Hall, designed by renowned architect, Frank L. Packard; Brown House, a very old historic building that may have been part of the UGRR; the TB Ward at the Asylum, which was actually the youngest building in that complex; and Super Hall, which has been replaced by a much more poorly built Bentley Annex. These are but a few examples of buildings that could have been saved and repurposed, if necessary, and that would have preserved our heritage in a much better manner than we have done.

Here’s a quote from a friend of mine, Tom O’Grady, who is a past executive director of the Southeast Ohio History Center, and still works there in another capacity:

“Our buildings help define us as a community and as individuals. Short term administrators and out of town trustees shouldn’t be able to make such callous decisions and not include the community. People of Athens built those old buildings.

The old buildings are made of the primal materials of the region and they were built to last for multiple centuries. New buildings are made from materials hauled in on semi-trucks from far and wide and the new buildings are not ever expected to last more than 35-50 years.”

I doubt you agree with this philosophy, but I’m very sympathetic to the sentiments expressed by Mr. O’Grady.

Finally, here’s.a link to a slide show prepared by Tom O’Grady to present to the University to provide evidence as to why Scott Quard should be preserved:

https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZWqhhVZhK6QRSLrl...


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Record Freshman Class and OU Runs Out of Dorms?
   Posted: 9/16/2022 2:00:05 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
BLSS:

1. I don’t know that you explicitly used the terms “modern financing and fiscal management” but that seemed to be an implication in what you were saying in some of your posts on the subject. I drew the clear inference that you thought that I was not coming to grips with superiors ways of the modern business world as it applies to higher education.


I didn't use those phrases, and didn't allude at all to "modern business" as it applies to higher education. You did, actually. In the process of referencing the same inference then that you're suggesting now. I replied then as I am now asking you to explain how you've concluded that. At the time, you also mentioned that I was implying that I knew more about University Administration that you -- despite my not referencing it in posts, and that I knew more about engineering than rpbobcat despite saying clearly: "I won't pretend to know if 10 years of upkeep costs plus refurbishment costs would be less expensive than building from scratch, but I also am unsure how the buildings themselves actually compare."

I was clear about what I did and didn't know. I never mentioned university administration or the politics therein. All I did was suggest that it might not be fiscally wise to mothball Scott Quad.

And again, that point was subsidiary to the actual fundamental disagreement around whether Scott Quad's historic significance means it shouldn't ever be replaced.

Everything else you raised -- the truthfulness of the administrations statements, modern business vs. university administration, my knowledge of engineering relative to rpbobcat -- were things you projected onto me, because you've decided to assume that if I disagree with you about Scott Quad's historical significance, I must disagree with you on university administration, the comms strategy of OU's current administration, engineering best practices, the value of historic preservation, and whether modern business can more effectively run a university.

I am completely unclear as to how you've reached any of those conclusions.

OhioCatFan wrote:

2. What you seem to forget about my statements about Scott Quard was that I not only thought this specific building was worth saving because it was the only building of its type on the OHIO campus, but also because it was part of the long history dating back 50 years of the University tearing down historic buildings that were very questionable decisions. Here’s a partial list: Old Tupper Hall, which was the original university chapel, dating back to the first half of the 19th Century; Ewing Hall, a classic old building, that along with Old Tupper and Culter created in words of one member of the fine arts faculty, “the most aesthetic space on campus;” Old Morton Hall, designed by renowned architect, Frank L. Packard; Brown House, a very old historic building that may have been part of the UGRR; the TB Ward at the Asylum, which was actually the youngest building in that complex; and Super Hall, which has been replaced by a much more poorly built Bentley Annex. These are but a few examples of buildings that could have been saved and repurposed, if necessary, and that would have preserved our heritage in a much better manner than we have done.

Here’s a quote from a friend of mine, Tom O’Grady, who is a past executive director of the Southeast Ohio History Center, and still works there in another capacity:

“Our buildings help define us as a community and as individuals. Short term administrators and out of town trustees shouldn’t be able to make such callous decisions and not include the community. People of Athens built those old buildings.

The old buildings are made of the primal materials of the region and they were built to last for multiple centuries. New buildings are made from materials hauled in on semi-trucks from far and wide and the new buildings are not ever expected to last more than 35-50 years.”

I doubt you agree with this philosophy, but I’m very sympathetic to the sentiments expressed by Mr. O’Grady.

Finally, here’s.a link to a slide show prepared by Tom O’Grady to present to the University to provide evidence as to why Scott Quard should be preserved:

https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZWqhhVZhK6QRSLrl...


Not really sure what to tell you at this point. I think I've been pretty clear about my stance on Scott Quad and why its demolition just wasn't that big a deal from my perspective. That you think my opinions on this particular building mean that I don't believe architecture plays a role in defining the character of a region is a huge logical leap. You keep applying opinions to me that I haven't expressed, all because you seem completely unwilling to even entertain the idea that I could disagree about the historical significance of Scott Quad without simultaneously wanting to tear down the Coliseum or replace Cutler Hall with an Arby's. The two things aren't connected.

I know nothing about the other buildings you've mentioned. I've been clear I'm not making a macro point about historical preservation, university administration, modern business, or anything else. I just happen to think Scott Quad is a square brick building from the 50s, and there are much more historically significant buildings on campus that warrant preservation.

I'm sorry you feel the history of Southeastern Ohio's been poorly preserved by Ohio University. I get you're passionate about it. I know basically nothing about that, and don't have an opinion one way or another. My opinion's about Scott Quad, and Scott Quad alone. You're gonna have to figure out how to reconcile my opinion with your own feelings, and come to terms with the fact that there's not a particularly clear logical thread between the points I'm making and the things you keep insisting I am saying.

Last Edited: 9/16/2022 2:02:18 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Record Freshman Class and OU Runs Out of Dorms?
   Posted: 9/16/2022 4:23:15 PM 
Well, if I misquoted or misunderstood you, I apologize, but I will have to say that my interpretation was probably not based just on what you said in this discussion but on a more gestalt impression from the tone of most of your posts on a variety of subjects. Again, I apologize if I’ve put words in your mouth with meanings you did not intend to convey.

Please look at the link I posted previously with the ppt file on why Scoot Quad should have been saved. Let me know if you learn anything new in that presentation that changes your opinion in the slightest on this issue.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Mike Johnson
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  Message Not Read  RE: Record Freshman Class and OU Runs Out of Dorms?
   Posted: 9/16/2022 6:28:34 PM 
SBH wrote:
Fantastic idea. Did you share it with the Powers That Be?



Yes. At the encouragement of a staffer who reports directly to Sherman I sent him a detailed proposal. And with the blessing of the staffer, she was cc'd on the missive. No reply.


http://www.facebook.com/mikejohnson.author

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Record Freshman Class and OU Runs Out of Dorms?
   Posted: 9/17/2022 10:13:48 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Well, if I misquoted or misunderstood you, I apologize, but I will have to say that my interpretation was probably not based just on what you said in this discussion but on a more gestalt impression from the tone of most of your posts on a variety of subjects. Again, I apologize if I’ve put words in your mouth with meanings you did not intend to convey.

Please look at the link I posted previously with the ppt file on why Scoot Quad should have been saved. Let me know if you learn anything new in that presentation that changes your opinion in the slightest on this issue.


Sorry man, but that powerpoint isn't moving the needle for me. In fact, I think it makes some patently ridiculous claims.

I don't understand the view that the mere fact that Scott Quad was a quadrangle merits preservation. And the fact that the presentation makes a claim that it's design "puts it in company with Tom Quad, Radcliffe Quad, and the Law Quadrangle at University of Michigan" feels like a pretty ridiculous point to me. I honestly can't believe it's being made in a serious way.

Anybody who has been to Oxford wouldn't make that comparison. Tom Quad was build in 1525. It's center court yard is substantially larger than Scott Quad's, and is Christ Church's campus center. The equivalent at OU is College Green, and pretending otherwise merely because of an architectural term is intellectually dishonest.

Those quads are a central focus of their colleges. They're intrinsic to the character of the university. Scott Quad was a dorm, with a small courtyard, that wasn't utilized widely by anybody but residents of Scott Quad. It simply wasn't a key part of campus or heavily used.

Here's an interesting litmus test for Scott Quad's historical significance and contribution to campus character: does Scott Quad appear in marketing materials geared towards attracting students to Ohio University?

Here are a few commercials Ohio has run:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwV4dOw2Jvo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLlVm4QK2FM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnWgo6UHqMw

A lot of shots of campus. None of Scott Quad. You think a commercial for Christ Church wouldn't include a picture of Tom Quad? Or that Michigan wouldn't show the Law Quad?

Here's a link to the cover art of every OU undergrad catalog for 40 years: https://archive.org/search.php?query=mediatype%3Atexts+AN... .

A lot of photos of a lot of different parts of campus. No Scott Quad.

Here's a link to a brochure used to attract international students to OU: https://www.ohio.edu/admissions/sites/ohio.edu.admissions... .

No Scott Quad.

Given that we have Tom Quad on campus, seems like a big missed opportunity from a marketing stand point, no? Can you find any examples otherwise?

Just not really seeing it, man.

Last Edited: 9/17/2022 10:15:52 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Record Freshman Class and OU Runs Out of Dorms?
   Posted: 9/17/2022 10:34:30 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Well, if I misquoted or misunderstood you, I apologize, but I will have to say that my interpretation was probably not based just on what you said in this discussion but on a more gestalt impression from the tone of most of your posts on a variety of subjects. Again, I apologize if I’ve put words in your mouth with meanings you did not intend to convey.

Please look at the link I posted previously with the ppt file on why Scoot Quad should have been saved. Let me know if you learn anything new in that presentation that changes your opinion in the slightest on this issue.


Sorry man, but that powerpoint isn't moving the needle for me. In fact, I think it makes some patently ridiculous claims.

I don't understand the view that the mere fact that Scott Quad was a quadrangle merits preservation. And the fact that the presentation makes a claim that it's design "puts it in company with Tom Quad, Radcliffe Quad, and the Law Quadrangle at University of Michigan" feels like a pretty ridiculous point to me. I honestly can't believe it's being made in a serious way.

Anybody who has been to Oxford wouldn't make that comparison. Tom Quad was build in 1525. It's center court yard is substantially larger than Scott Quad's, and is Christ Church's campus center. The equivalent at OU is College Green, and pretending otherwise merely because of an architectural term is intellectually dishonest.

Those quads are a central focus of their colleges. They're intrinsic to the character of the university. Scott Quad was a dorm, with a small courtyard, that wasn't utilized widely by anybody but residents of Scott Quad. It simply wasn't a key part of campus or heavily used.

Here's an interesting litmus test for Scott Quad's historical significance and contribution to campus character: does Scott Quad appear in marketing materials geared towards attracting students to Ohio University?

Here are a few commercials Ohio has run:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwV4dOw2Jvo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLlVm4QK2FM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnWgo6UHqMw

A lot of shots of campus. None of Scott Quad. You think a commercial for Christ Church wouldn't include a picture of Tom Quad? Or that Michigan wouldn't show the Law Quad?

Here's a link to the cover art of every OU undergrad catalog for 40 years: https://archive.org/search.php?query=mediatype%3Atexts+AN... .

A lot of photos of a lot of different parts of campus. No Scott Quad.

Here's a link to a brochure used to attract international students to OU: https://www.ohio.edu/admissions/sites/ohio.edu.admissions... .

No Scott Quad.

Given that we have Tom Quad on campus, seems like a big missed opportunity from a marketing stand point, no? Can you find any examples otherwise?

Just not really seeing it, man.


There's a heck of a lot more in that ppt file than the one statement you are keying on. I give +1 debating points, but not much more.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Record Freshman Class and OU Runs Out of Dorms?
   Posted: 9/18/2022 9:54:44 AM 
OhioCatFan wrote:


There's a heck of a lot more in that ppt file than the one statement you are keying on. I give +1 debating points, but not much more.


If your argument is that Scott Quad is a historic building that needs to be saved, and you begin your argument my making unjustifiable historic comparisons, that seems like a bad start.

Of the slides, many aren't related to Scott Quad. The first that is makes ridiculous comparisons. The second points to an arched ceiling, insisting it's important because it's the only example in Southeast Ohio. I'm sure that's true. The third suggests selling the building to private entities. The fourth tells us about the building's namesake. From there, it's mainly pictures, before it transitions to making a point that's unrelated to the building's history and focuses on it's value, instead.

It's unclear what part of that slideshow is supposed to convince me that Scott Quad is an architectural gem worthy of preservation at any cost. The picture of a light fixture? The marble toilet stalls? The picture of windows?

Our fundamental disagreement is about the historic vale of the building. This slide show doesn't make a compelling argument it reaches that threshold. What am I missing?
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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Record Freshman Class and OU Runs Out of Dorms?
   Posted: 9/18/2022 10:38:56 AM 
George Costanza would have focused on the fact that the doors on the toilet stalls went almost all the way to the floor.

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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: Record Freshman Class and OU Runs Out of Dorms?
   Posted: 9/21/2022 4:42:09 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
Campus Flow wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Campus Flow wrote:
Jeff McKinney wrote:
As some of you have noted, GPAs are so inflated that they aren't a legitimate metric for quality of incoming classes any more.


That opinion is centered on the 5 point scale A for IB and AP classes. For then an Ivy League college can easily have a freshman class average over a 4.0 scale. Grade inflation is much more a factor for the most selective schools.



How about schools that have a 6.0 scale, which actually tops out at 6.4.


Can you provide proof that any high school in Ohio is running a 6.4 scale?


Sure: Page 24 in the student handbook.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-re1NeyJHcIXwc1SCin1o...


That is just for IB classes, normal honors scale is lower. College Prep is generally on a 4.0. I do like what they are trying to do by incentivizing the advanced courses and its an opportunity because its a high school in a college town but this is far from how its done across the state.

At least in the contexts of the publics of Ohio grade inflation is not a factor.


Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Record Freshman Class and OU Runs Out of Dorms?
   Posted: 9/21/2022 7:47:14 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
Campus Flow wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Campus Flow wrote:
Jeff McKinney wrote:
As some of you have noted, GPAs are so inflated that they aren't a legitimate metric for quality of incoming classes any more.


That opinion is centered on the 5 point scale A for IB and AP classes. For then an Ivy League college can easily have a freshman class average over a 4.0 scale. Grade inflation is much more a factor for the most selective schools.



How about schools that have a 6.0 scale, which actually tops out at 6.4.


Can you provide proof that any high school in Ohio is running a 6.4 scale?


Sure: Page 24 in the student handbook.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-re1NeyJHcIXwc1SCin1o...


Yep - 6.33 for an A+ in a CC+ class that isn't as rigorous as an Honors class at the high school. More inflation in those grades than air in the Goodyear blimp.

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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Record Freshman Class and OU Runs Out of Dorms?
   Posted: 9/22/2022 6:16:58 AM 
Helium. :)
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Record Freshman Class and OU Runs Out of Dorms?
   Posted: 9/22/2022 8:51:30 AM 
Campus Flow wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Campus Flow wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Campus Flow wrote:
Jeff McKinney wrote:
As some of you have noted, GPAs are so inflated that they aren't a legitimate metric for quality of incoming classes any more.


That opinion is centered on the 5 point scale A for IB and AP classes. For then an Ivy League college can easily have a freshman class average over a 4.0 scale. Grade inflation is much more a factor for the most selective schools.



How about schools that have a 6.0 scale, which actually tops out at 6.4.


Can you provide proof that any high school in Ohio is running a 6.4 scale?


Sure: Page 24 in the student handbook.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-re1NeyJHcIXwc1SCin1o...


That is just for IB classes, normal honors scale is lower. College Prep is generally on a 4.0. I do like what they are trying to do by incentivizing the advanced courses and its an opportunity because its a high school in a college town but this is far from how its done across the state.

At least in the contexts of the publics of Ohio grade inflation is not a factor.


I am aware that this is not the general norm across the state. However, I was challenged to find an example. I did. And FYI, all things at this school is based off the 6.33 scale, and there are no basic classes.
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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: Record Freshman Class and OU Runs Out of Dorms?
   Posted: 9/26/2022 10:06:11 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:

Yep - 6.33 for an A+ in a CC+ class that isn't as rigorous as an Honors class at the high school. More inflation in those grades than air in the Goodyear blimp.


Can't believe you went with the blimp instead of the US economy here. Golden opportunity missed.


Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Record Freshman Class and OU Runs Out of Dorms?
   Posted: 9/28/2022 9:11:01 PM 
Andrew Ruck wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:

Yep - 6.33 for an A+ in a CC+ class that isn't as rigorous as an Honors class at the high school. More inflation in those grades than air in the Goodyear blimp.


Can't believe you went with the blimp instead of the US economy here. Golden opportunity missed.


Having grown up in Akron in the 50s and 60s and having seen three blimps in the sky from our front porch at one time, the blimp seemed the way to go. The you attended Seiberling Elementary, Goodyear Junior High and lived one block from Goodyear Blvd and lived in Goodyear Heights, the blimp seems logical not to mention inflation today is nothing like the late 70s/early 80s. What goes up will eventually come down.
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: Record Freshman Class and OU Runs Out of Dorms?
   Posted: 9/28/2022 11:27:10 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
We're still down 4000 undergraduate students in Athens from a high of 18K+ in 2016. Enrollments are up everywhere due to many students taking the 21 - 22 off due to 20 -21 being virtual in som many places.


My son got really stressed out from all the virtual classes, the shifting from code yellow to code red (or whatever it was) and back again, and the confusion about the masking requirements. So he took a "break" after fall semester last year and probably will never go back. He's working on writing his stories at home (he was a creative writing major), working a part-time job and doing a few other things.

He wasn't all that pleased with his dorm (Wray House), either. The main problem was mold. Along about October of last year one wall and part of the ceiling were covered with black mold. They took care of it within a week or so, but it looked like it was coming back when he moved out. I imagine other dorms had/have similar issues. I think Wray was renovated not too long ago, but it could be that more is needed.

Freshmen living off campus is a throw-back to the 1960s. I was in the last freshman class allowed to live in approved off-campus housing the first year. I never lived in a dorm. I was in a three-bedroom apartment (w/living room, kitchen and bathroom) in what used to be Hayes Hall with five other guys who I didn't know until I moved in. I think it's part of the River Park complex now. I enjoyed it, and I think some freshmen these days might actually prefer that kind of an arrangement. I'm not sure about their meal arrangement (the building that housed the Hayes cafeteria is long gone); Jeff Marketplace, Shively (if it still has a dining hall) and Nelson are the closest places.


We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Record Freshman Class and OU Runs Out of Dorms?
   Posted: 9/29/2022 10:08:01 AM 
Pataskala wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
We're still down 4000 undergraduate students in Athens from a high of 18K+ in 2016. Enrollments are up everywhere due to many students taking the 21 - 22 off due to 20 -21 being virtual in som many places.


My son got really stressed out from all the virtual classes, the shifting from code yellow to code red (or whatever it was) and back again, and the confusion about the masking requirements. So he took a "break" after fall semester last year and probably will never go back. He's working on writing his stories at home (he was a creative writing major), working a part-time job and doing a few other things.

He wasn't all that pleased with his dorm (Wray House), either. The main problem was mold. Along about October of last year one wall and part of the ceiling were covered with black mold. They took care of it within a week or so, but it looked like it was coming back when he moved out. I imagine other dorms had/have similar issues. I think Wray was renovated not too long ago, but it could be that more is needed.

Freshmen living off campus is a throw-back to the 1960s. I was in the last freshman class allowed to live in approved off-campus housing the first year. I never lived in a dorm. I was in a three-bedroom apartment (w/living room, kitchen and bathroom) in what used to be Hayes Hall with five other guys who I didn't know until I moved in. I think it's part of the River Park complex now. I enjoyed it, and I think some freshmen these days might actually prefer that kind of an arrangement. I'm not sure about their meal arrangement (the building that housed the Hayes cafeteria is long gone); Jeff Marketplace, Shively (if it still has a dining hall) and Nelson are the closest places.


I believe Shively is gone. Just Jeff, Nelson, Boyd still left, with the new markets, the Baker food court etc., as other options. The new Jefferson Market has car parts, and such. Like a mini Wally World, just more expensive.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Record Freshman Class and OU Runs Out of Dorms?
   Posted: 9/29/2022 11:43:55 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:
We're still down 4000 undergraduate students in Athens from a high of 18K+ in 2016. Enrollments are up everywhere due to many students taking the 21 - 22 off due to 20 -21 being virtual in som many places.


This is interesting. I wonder if the data suggests that the increases this year are temporary and not reflective of future freshman class enrollment rates. If, for instance, there are a high number of "older" students who sat out virtual college and are now enrolled as Freshman, that would signal a temporary increase.

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Record Freshman Class and OU Runs Out of Dorms?
   Posted: 10/1/2022 1:59:14 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
We're still down 4000 undergraduate students in Athens from a high of 18K+ in 2016. Enrollments are up everywhere due to many students taking the 21 - 22 off due to 20 -21 being virtual in som many places.


This is interesting. I wonder if the data suggests that the increases this year are temporary and not reflective of future freshman class enrollment rates. If, for instance, there are a high number of "older" students who sat out virtual college and are now enrolled as Freshman, that would signal a temporary increase.



https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2022/08/21/t...

This stood out in the explanation:

College officials offered several explanations for the increased freshmen numbers. One obvious factor behind the success is that almost every campus is returning to normal campus operations, resuming in-person classes, and promising a greater sense of safety and security following two years of pandemic-related crises and adjustments.

Simply put, college campuses have regained much of their social appeal. Kevin Kropf, Drury’s Vice President for Enrollment Management, Marketing & Communications, put it this way: “We are thankful to regain a sense of normalcy and our students are excited to be on campus with their friends and immersed in the Drury experience.”

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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: Record Freshman Class and OU Runs Out of Dorms?
   Posted: 10/1/2022 3:09:29 PM 
The hasn't been enough data on 22-23 to draw any conclusions about post COVID bump because the calendar year is new. I wouldn't be surprised if the overall numbers in Ohio are down as OSU is down and Toledo has only 11,000 students this fall on campus.

Here is an article on the uphill demographic challenges the state of Ohio faces.

Quote:
Among the top ten states with the largest enrollment declines, four were from the Midwest, including Ohio in sixth place. Ohio has historically played an important role in higher education, hosting the sixth highest number of higher education institutions in the nation. Between fall 2019 and fall 2021, Ohio, along with three other states — California, New York and Texas — accounted for 50% of the national enrollment decrease.

A closer look at data from the Ohio Department of Higher Education indicates that Ohio’s total enrollment across public and private higher education institutions declined by 30% from 2010 to 2020, meaning that there were 212,249 fewer college students on Ohio campuses than in 2010. The U.S. enrollment dropped 12% during the same time period.

https://www.midstory.org/inside-ohios-college-enrollment-... /





Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: Record Freshman Class and OU Runs Out of Dorms?
   Posted: 10/1/2022 3:21:31 PM 
Correction Toledo is under 12,000 for undergraduate but still above 15,000 overall. Akron's undergraduate for Fall of is 12,848.

https://news.utoledo.edu/index.php/09_13_2022/utoledo-ann...

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/university-akron-enro...

Its not exactly a rush back to campus for Fall 2022 across Ohio.


Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Record Freshman Class and OU Runs Out of Dorms?
   Posted: 10/5/2022 12:19:46 AM 
Backtracking in the thread here for a moment... the shortage of dorm rooms and takeover of two apartment buildings near the campus. How does that play into the availability of apartments to "grown-ups" and the cost??
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Record Freshman Class and OU Runs Out of Dorms?
   Posted: 10/5/2022 10:32:13 AM 
greencat wrote:
Backtracking in the thread here for a moment... the shortage of dorm rooms and takeover of two apartment buildings near the campus. How does that play into the availability of apartments to "grown-ups" and the cost??


One of the highest cost of housing in the state of Ohio.
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OUPride
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  Message Not Read  RE: Record Freshman Class and OU Runs Out of Dorms?
   Posted: 10/5/2022 12:22:16 PM 
Campus Flow wrote:
The hasn't been enough data on 22-23 to draw any conclusions about post COVID bump because the calendar year is new. I wouldn't be surprised if the overall numbers in Ohio are down as OSU is down and Toledo has only 11,000 students this fall on campus.

Here is an article on the uphill demographic challenges the state of Ohio faces.

Quote:
Among the top ten states with the largest enrollment declines, four were from the Midwest, including Ohio in sixth place. Ohio has historically played an important role in higher education, hosting the sixth highest number of higher education institutions in the nation. Between fall 2019 and fall 2021, Ohio, along with three other states — California, New York and Texas — accounted for 50% of the national enrollment decrease.

A closer look at data from the Ohio Department of Higher Education indicates that Ohio’s total enrollment across public and private higher education institutions declined by 30% from 2010 to 2020, meaning that there were 212,249 fewer college students on Ohio campuses than in 2010. The U.S. enrollment dropped 12% during the same time period.

https://www.midstory.org/inside-ohios-college-enrollment-... /






OSU completely screwed up their post-covid class. They grossly underestimated what their yield would be, dipped down into their applicant pool and ended up with a freshman class of over 8K students. I'm not sure too much can be made on an state macro level of them trying to manage their freshman class downward. In fact, this is good for Ohio as it is sending at least a thousand kids looking at non-osu options. As I've said before, I think that given the state's current demographics, the legislature really should cap OSU's freshman classes at around 6K.
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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Record Freshman Class and OU Runs Out of Dorms?
   Posted: 10/5/2022 5:56:08 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
greencat wrote:
Backtracking in the thread here for a moment... the shortage of dorm rooms and takeover of two apartment buildings near the campus. How does that play into the availability of apartments to "grown-ups" and the cost??


One of the highest cost of housing in the state of Ohio.


For students or in general? Housing in general (townies and other "grown-ups") shouldn't be that outrageous in poverty stricken SE Ohio. (?)

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