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Topic:  Wrestling program?

Topic:  Wrestling program?
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SBH
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  Message Not Read  Wrestling program?
   Posted: 3/18/2023 9:44:34 AM 
What's going on with the wrestling program. Entire coaching staff placed on leave after alleged assaults during practice?
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wrestling program?
   Posted: 3/18/2023 10:11:35 AM 
SBH wrote:
What's going on with the wrestling program. Entire coaching staff placed on leave after alleged assaults during practice?


https://www.nbc4i.com/news/local-news/athens/ohio-univers... /

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wrestling program?
   Posted: 3/18/2023 1:17:09 PM 
Short article in The Post.

Not a lot of details .
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wrestling program?
   Posted: 5/3/2023 11:57:46 AM 
Haven't seen/heard anything about this since The Post article around March 18.

Anyone know what's going on ?
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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wrestling program?
   Posted: 8/1/2023 6:39:51 AM 
Just saw an announcement from OUPD that there was insufficient evidence to continue the investigation or bring charges against the coaches. Apparently two wrestlers alleged they were injured during practice. OUPD says there was no documentation of injuries.

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wrestling program?
   Posted: 8/1/2023 7:08:54 AM 
SBH wrote:
Just saw an announcement from OUPD that there was insufficient evidence to continue the investigation or bring charges against the coaches. Apparently two wrestlers alleged they were injured during practice. OUPD says there was no documentation of injuries.



According to posts on "InterMat Wrestling" , the investigation was
completed a while ago.

The coaches were suspended in March, but its takes till now for OUPD to
issue a statement ?

The wrestlers have been in limbo for months.

As I posted in the "Olympic Sports" page, there's been "radio silence" from O.U. since day one.

Neither the new President ,AD or anyone else has said anything.

The new President also never had the courtesy to answer my email or have
someone in her office or the Athletic Department respond.

As I also posted, someone should have let the wrestlers know what's going on.

O.U's silence has led to a lot of speculation that they may try to
use this as an excuse to drop wrestling and add another men's sport.














Last Edited: 8/1/2023 8:36:29 AM by rpbobcat

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wrestling program?
   Posted: 8/1/2023 9:49:27 AM 
According to the most recent posts on InterMat Wrestling from last night and this morning , and what I've heard from people in Athens, a member of the team was getting into trouble (fights) in bars uptown the night before a practice.

Next day his practice partner was one of the coaches.

Kid claimed he got hurt. He complained to his parents and they tried to press charges.

Reading the O.U.P.D. "Statement" there was nothing to it.

According to the posts on InterMat Wrestling, the wrestler has left O.U.
and transferred to another school.

Big question being asked is, " what about the coaches ?"

No question this hurts the program big time.

One person called it a "death sentence for the foreseeable future".

Plus it can really hurt recruiting.









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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wrestling program?
   Posted: 8/1/2023 10:12:49 AM 
The assistant coach who was the practice partner has left the program, according to a source. Head coach remains with the program.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wrestling program?
   Posted: 8/1/2023 11:45:02 AM 
So, how long before O.U. issues some type of statement on what's going
on with the wrestling team ?
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wrestling program?
   Posted: 8/2/2023 4:13:20 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
So, how long before O.U. issues some type of statement on what's going
on with the wrestling team ?


My bet is they don't. Also, the local headlines and story on OUPD concluding the investigation was pretty much garbage and could have defended those who have had their reputations damaged.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wrestling program?
   Posted: 8/3/2023 6:47:22 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
So, how long before O.U. issues some type of statement on what's going
on with the wrestling team ?


My bet is they don't. Also, the local headlines and story on OUPD concluding the investigation was pretty much garbage and could have defended those who have had their reputations damaged.


Wonder if anyone from the Administration or Athletic Department has bothered
to let the wrestlers know what's going on ?


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SouthernCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wrestling program?
   Posted: 8/4/2023 8:14:29 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
According to the most recent posts on InterMat Wrestling from last night and this morning , and what I've heard from people in Athens, a member of the team was getting into trouble (fights) in bars uptown the night before a practice.

Next day his practice partner was one of the coaches.

Kid claimed he got hurt. He complained to his parents and they tried to press charges.

Reading the O.U.P.D. "Statement" there was nothing to it.

According to the posts on InterMat Wrestling, the wrestler has left O.U.
and transferred to another school.

Big question being asked is, " what about the coaches ?"

No question this hurts the program big time.

One person called it a "death sentence for the foreseeable future".

Plus it can really hurt recruiting.










My cousin was planning oncoming, but this basically shut down his recruiting. He ended up at Campbellsville.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wrestling program?
   Posted: 8/4/2023 8:24:39 AM 
SouthernCat wrote:

My cousin was planning oncoming, but this basically shut down his recruiting. He ended up at Campbellsville.


From what's been posted on the wrestling boards, your cousin isn't alone.

Not only was recruiting hurt, but several members of team went the transfer
portal route.

It sure seems like O.U. is intentionally dragging this out.

Especially by not issuing any kind of statement explaining what's going on.

I understand there may be things they can't talk about.
But at least say SOME THING.

As I posted , there is "chatter" that O.U. may want to use this as an excuse to
kill wrestling.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wrestling program?
   Posted: 8/4/2023 10:30:32 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
SouthernCat wrote:

My cousin was planning oncoming, but this basically shut down his recruiting. He ended up at Campbellsville.


From what's been posted on the wrestling boards, your cousin isn't alone.

Not only was recruiting hurt, but several members of team went the transfer
portal route.

It sure seems like O.U. is intentionally dragging this out.

Especially by not issuing any kind of statement explaining what's going on.

I understand there may be things they can't talk about.
But at least say SOME THING.

As I posted , there is "chatter" that O.U. may want to use this as an excuse to
kill wrestling.


Maybe this is the same MO that they use to rationalize tearing down perfectly good buildings that could be renovated. They do no maintenance on the building for years and then say it's in horrible shape and the cheapest alternative is just to tear it down. Neglect the wrestling program, make no effort to help it out of its problems, then declare it is beyond salvaging and then shut it down. Is that what's happening? Maybe there is a pattern here?


The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wrestling program?
   Posted: 8/4/2023 11:01:43 AM 
OhioCatFan wrote:


Maybe this is the same MO that they use to rationalize tearing down perfectly good buildings that could be renovated. They do no maintenance on the building for years and then say it's in horrible shape and the cheapest alternative is just to tear it down. Neglect the wrestling program, make no effort to help it out of its problems, then declare it is beyond salvaging and then shut it down. Is that what's happening? Maybe there is a pattern here?



OCF:
You left out that, right after they demolish a building, like the Tuberculosis Building, they say the made a mistake.
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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wrestling program?
   Posted: 8/4/2023 12:28:29 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
SouthernCat wrote:

My cousin was planning oncoming, but this basically shut down his recruiting. He ended up at Campbellsville.


From what's been posted on the wrestling boards, your cousin isn't alone.

Not only was recruiting hurt, but several members of team went the transfer
portal route.

It sure seems like O.U. is intentionally dragging this out.

Especially by not issuing any kind of statement explaining what's going on.

I understand there may be things they can't talk about.
But at least say SOME THING.

As I posted , there is "chatter" that O.U. may want to use this as an excuse to
kill wrestling.


They're not going to eliminate wrestling. They learned a painful lesson after killing men's track - they have worked very, very hard to re-establish relationships (and giving) with former team members. They're not going to make the same mistake with wrestling. I'm sure there's much more to the story than we all know.




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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wrestling program?
   Posted: 8/4/2023 2:11:02 PM 
SBH wrote:


They're not going to eliminate wrestling. They learned a painful lesson after killing men's track - they have worked very, very hard to re-establish relationships (and giving) with former team members. They're not going to make the same mistake with wrestling. I'm sure there's much more to the story than we all know.



If that's true about not dropping wrestling , the new President or the A.D. really needs to issue some type of statement saying that, and whatever else they can.

I don't know if O.U. even has even informed the team what's going on.

Seems as of a week or so ago they're still in limbo.

At least a statement that would help quell all the unrest.

No one has said a word since the story broke about the now discredited accusations in March.

Last Edited: 8/4/2023 2:14:23 PM by rpbobcat

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wrestling program?
   Posted: 8/4/2023 2:19:12 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:


No one has said a word since the story broke about the now discredited accusations in March.


Were the accusations discredited? Above somebody said an assistant coach left the program -- were the accusations against that coach discredited?
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wrestling program?
   Posted: 8/4/2023 3:13:09 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:


No one has said a word since the story broke about the now discredited accusations in March.


Were the accusations discredited? Above somebody said an assistant coach left the program -- were the accusations against that coach discredited?


If you read the full 7/31/23 Statement by O.U.P.D. and the article in the 8/03/23 Athens Messenger "E" edition, its pretty clear there was "no there, there".

You reference the Asst. Coach leaving the program.
But apparently the kid (or his parents) who made the accusation also left the program and transferred from O.U.

You might want to check out the "Trouble In Athens, OH " thread in the InterMat college wrestling forums.
The posts provide a bit more insight into what happened.
O.U.P.D.'s full statement is there too.

Last Edited: 8/4/2023 3:14:09 PM by rpbobcat

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wrestling program?
   Posted: 8/4/2023 4:25:54 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:


If you read the full 7/31/23 Statement by O.U.P.D. and the article in the 8/03/23 Athens Messenger "E" edition, its pretty clear there was "no there, there".


I don't think the OUPD statement tells us one way or another, honestly.

What we know from it is that the OUPD interviewed witnesses, gathered medical records, and still felt there was enough there to share their findings with a doctor. His conclusion was "excessive but not egregious" and the OUPD's determination was there wasn't enough evidence to pursue criminal charges.

"Excessive but not egregious" is not an exoneration, and is not a conclusion that strikes me as "no there, there." The conclusion seems to be that the coaching staff was excessive, and people were injured. But that excess didn't rise to criminality.

If you couple that with the rumors you posted above, it sounds an awful lot like a coach physically disciplined a wrestler for getting in a fight uptown, and that the wrestler was injured in the process. "Excessive but not egregious" seems to actually verify that it happened.

Do you think that should be allowed?

rpbobcat wrote:

You reference the Asst. Coach leaving the program.
But apparently the kid (or his parents) who made the accusation also left the program and transferred from O.U.


I'm not following. Why is the fact that the kid who made the report left the program relevant?

I'm just wondering if it was the Assistant Coach whose behavior was excessive, and that he was asked to leave the program.

Edit: I'll also just add -- I went to the wrestling message board you mentioned and saw that the OU Wrestling team's really frustrated on Twitter. Totally get that. But one thing that I don't understand: this all happened in practice, right? Presumably the wrestling team was all there. It seems super strange to me that none of them have said outright "nothing happened." That seems like a pretty weird gap here. They have every right to be frustrated about the length of this, and not having coaches in place -- but it definitely seems strange to me that nobody on the team is saying "I was there, here's what happened, and it wasn't a big deal."


Last Edited: 8/4/2023 5:11:08 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wrestling program?
   Posted: 8/5/2023 9:29:22 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:


I don't think the OUPD statement tells us one way or another, honestly.

What we know from it is that the OUPD interviewed witnesses, gathered medical records, and still felt there was enough there to share their findings with a doctor. His conclusion was "excessive but not egregious" and the OUPD's determination was there wasn't enough evidence to pursue criminal charges.

"Excessive but not egregious" is not an exoneration, and is not a conclusion that strikes me as "no there, there." The conclusion seems to be that the coaching staff was excessive, and people were injured. But that excess didn't rise to criminality.

If you couple that with the rumors you posted above, it sounds an awful lot like a coach physically disciplined a wrestler for getting in a fight uptown, and that the wrestler was injured in the process. "Excessive but not egregious" seems to actually verify that it happened.

Do you think that should be allowed?

rpbobcat wrote:

You reference the Asst. Coach leaving the program.
But apparently the kid (or his parents) who made the accusation also left the program and transferred from O.U.


I'm not following. Why is the fact that the kid who made the report left the program relevant?

I'm just wondering if it was the Assistant Coach whose behavior was excessive, and that he was asked to leave the program.

Edit: I'll also just add -- I went to the wrestling message board you mentioned and saw that the OU Wrestling team's really frustrated on Twitter. Totally get that. But one thing that I don't understand: this all happened in practice, right? Presumably the wrestling team was all there. It seems super strange to me that none of them have said outright "nothing happened." That seems like a pretty weird gap here. They have every right to be frustrated about the length of this, and not having coaches in place -- but it definitely seems strange to me that nobody on the team is saying "I was there, here's what happened, and it wasn't a big deal."




I think the O.U.P.D.'s statement says it all.

The kid and or his parents wanted criminal charges filed.

The fact that they weren't is an indication that there was no there there.

I would also like to know what is meant by "excessive" ?

As I've said,I wrestled D1 in college.

I had an asst. or head coach as a partner a number of times.

Coaches go much harder.

Same thing, when I was getting ready for a tournament the coaches would
have me wrestle a new ,fresh partner every period.

Is that excessive ?

Sorry,but in my opinion ,the kid transferring is an indicator of
"character".

As far as the team making statements,I'm sure it was like the 110 situation.
You are told not to make public comments.

I would presume O.U.P.D interviewed the team.
Otherwise how could the form a conclusion.


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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wrestling program?
   Posted: 8/5/2023 11:54:38 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:


I think the O.U.P.D.'s statement says it all.

The kid and or his parents wanted criminal charges filed.

The fact that they weren't is an indication that there was no there there.

I would also like to know what is meant by "excessive" ?

As I've said,I wrestled D1 in college.

I had an asst. or head coach as a partner a number of times.

Coaches go much harder.

Same thing, when I was getting ready for a tournament the coaches would
have me wrestle a new ,fresh partner every period.

Is that excessive ?

Sorry,but in my opinion ,the kid transferring is an indicator of
"character".

As far as the team making statements,I'm sure it was like the 110 situation.
You are told not to make public comments.

I would presume O.U.P.D interviewed the team.
Otherwise how could the form a conclusion.



You're saying that you don't know how to interpret a key component of the OUPD statement, but then going on to conclude that the statement "says it all" and that there's "no there there."

I don't know what happened. But also don't think I have enough info to conclude anything about the character of the kid involved, whether "excessive but not egregious" is acceptable behavior in a coach ("excessive implies that it was more than what's needed, at the very least), and I think anybody reading the OUPD statement who is willing to blame the kid and say "there's no there there" is showing their bias. Worth noting that you also posited that this was a conspiracy to shut down the wrestling program.

What seems more logical here? That the University is trying to use an incident with no "there there" as cloud cover to shut down the program, opening themselves up to lawsuits from the impacted coaching staff, or that maybe a medical examiner stating that the coaching staff was "excessive but not egregious" has the University admin concerned?

The University has already shown themselves to be quite conservative in these matters with the 110 and Greek investigations. Isn't this just that same conservativism? That OUPD statement opens the University up to civil charges from the kid, unquestionably.

It may end up there was nothing to this. But right now, based on what's out there, I'm not sure how people are drawing that conclusion. Especially given that one assistant coach left the program.



Last Edited: 8/5/2023 12:31:08 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wrestling program?
   Posted: 8/5/2023 12:47:27 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:



I don't know what happened. But also don't think I have enough info to conclude anything about the character of the kid involved, whether "excessive but not egregious" is acceptable behavior in a coach ("excessive implies that it was more than what's needed, at the very least), and I think anybody reading the OUPD statement who is willing to blame the kid and say "there's no there there" is showing their bias. Worth noting that you also posited that this was a conspiracy to shut down the wrestling program.
v
What seems more logical here? That the University is trying to use an incident with no "there there" as cloud cover to shut down the program, opening themselves up to lawsuits from the impacted coaching staff, or that maybe a medical examiner stating that the coaching staff was "excessive but not egregious" has the University admin concerned?

The University has already shown themselves to be quite conservative in these matters with the 110 and Greek investigations. Isn't this just that same conservativism? That OUPD statement opens the University up to civil charges from the kid, unquestionably.

It may end up there was nothing to this. But right now, based on what's out there, I'm not sure how people are drawing that conclusion. Especially given that one assistant coach left the program.





First off if you read my posts, I never said this was a conspiracy on the part of O.U. to shut down the wrestling program.

What I said was that there was a lot of "chatter" that O.U. may want to use this as an excuse to kill wrestling.

I also think that if you talk to any member of the 110 or one of the frats that they investigated,they would have a different take then your calling what O.U. did "quite conservative".

I do find it quite odd that,even after O.U.P.D.'s statement,the University has yet to issue any kind of statement regrading the program.

They've lost kids to the transfer portal and pretty pretty much eliminated recruiting for the next year.

As one person posted on InterMat "this is essentially a death sentence for the program for the foreseeable".

Based on how O.U. is still dealing with this,its hard to disagree with the satement.







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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wrestling program?
   Posted: 8/5/2023 12:50:28 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:


I think the O.U.P.D.'s statement says it all.

The kid and or his parents wanted criminal charges filed.

The fact that they weren't is an indication that there was no there there.

I would also like to know what is meant by "excessive" ?

As I've said,I wrestled D1 in college.

I had an asst. or head coach as a partner a number of times.

Coaches go much harder.

Same thing, when I was getting ready for a tournament the coaches would
have me wrestle a new ,fresh partner every period.

Is that excessive ?

Sorry,but in my opinion ,the kid transferring is an indicator of
"character".

As far as the team making statements,I'm sure it was like the 110 situation.
You are told not to make public comments.

I would presume O.U.P.D interviewed the team.
Otherwise how could the form a conclusion.



You're saying that you don't know how to interpret a key component of the OUPD statement, but then going on to conclude that the statement "says it all" and that there's "no there there."

I don't know what happened. But also don't think I have enough info to conclude anything about the character of the kid involved, whether "excessive but not egregious" is acceptable behavior in a coach ("excessive implies that it was more than what's needed, at the very least), and I think anybody reading the OUPD statement who is willing to blame the kid and say "there's no there there" is showing their bias. Worth noting that you also posited that this was a conspiracy to shut down the wrestling program.

What seems more logical here? That the University is trying to use an incident with no "there there" as cloud cover to shut down the program, opening themselves up to lawsuits from the impacted coaching staff, or that maybe a medical examiner stating that the coaching staff was "excessive but not egregious" has the University admin concerned?

The University has already shown themselves to be quite conservative in these matters with the 110 and Greek investigations. Isn't this just that same conservativism? That OUPD statement opens the University up to civil charges from the kid, unquestionably.

It may end up there was nothing to this. But right now, based on what's out there, I'm not sure how people are drawing that conclusion. Especially given that one assistant coach left the program.


Though neither of you know for sure what happened, I would tend to go with the interpretation of a poster who actually was a wrestler at the college level and has some idea from past experience how to interpret some of the statements made, particularly the one by the physician. Not saying he can't be wrong, but saying the odds are he's got the better take on the situation.


The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Wrestling program?
   Posted: 8/5/2023 3:15:05 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:


I think the O.U.P.D.'s statement says it all.

The kid and or his parents wanted criminal charges filed.

The fact that they weren't is an indication that there was no there there.

I would also like to know what is meant by "excessive" ?

As I've said,I wrestled D1 in college.

I had an asst. or head coach as a partner a number of times.

Coaches go much harder.

Same thing, when I was getting ready for a tournament the coaches would
have me wrestle a new ,fresh partner every period.

Is that excessive ?

Sorry,but in my opinion ,the kid transferring is an indicator of
"character".

As far as the team making statements,I'm sure it was like the 110 situation.
You are told not to make public comments.

I would presume O.U.P.D interviewed the team.
Otherwise how could the form a conclusion.



You're saying that you don't know how to interpret a key component of the OUPD statement, but then going on to conclude that the statement "says it all" and that there's "no there there."

I don't know what happened. But also don't think I have enough info to conclude anything about the character of the kid involved, whether "excessive but not egregious" is acceptable behavior in a coach ("excessive implies that it was more than what's needed, at the very least), and I think anybody reading the OUPD statement who is willing to blame the kid and say "there's no there there" is showing their bias. Worth noting that you also posited that this was a conspiracy to shut down the wrestling program.

What seems more logical here? That the University is trying to use an incident with no "there there" as cloud cover to shut down the program, opening themselves up to lawsuits from the impacted coaching staff, or that maybe a medical examiner stating that the coaching staff was "excessive but not egregious" has the University admin concerned?

The University has already shown themselves to be quite conservative in these matters with the 110 and Greek investigations. Isn't this just that same conservativism? That OUPD statement opens the University up to civil charges from the kid, unquestionably.

It may end up there was nothing to this. But right now, based on what's out there, I'm not sure how people are drawing that conclusion. Especially given that one assistant coach left the program.


Though neither of you know for sure what happened, I would tend to go with the interpretation of a poster who actually was a wrestler at the college level and has some idea from past experience how to interpret some of the statements made, particularly the one by the physician. Not saying he can't be wrong, but saying the odds are he's got the better take on the situation.



The doctor who made the statement calling the behavior excessive was also a college wrestler, as stated by the OUPD. I'm not following how "excessive but not egregious" means there is no "there there", especially when coupled with the fact that it seems the assistant coach in question left the program.

Meanwhile, rpbobcat's stated that he doesn't know what is meant by excessive, posited that this is a conspiracy to get rid of the wrestling program, and determined -- despite his acknowledged lack of information -- that the wrestler's character is questionable solely because he transferred. In fact, rpbobcat also posted rumors here that make this seem much worse -- namely that the wrestler who was injured had gotten in a fight uptown and was paired with a coach in practice as a form of discipline. If that's true, that is bad, right? An employee of the University physically punished a player and it resulted in an injury, and a doctor/former wrestler called it excessive.
.

That's basically all we know -- and some of that's just rumor that rpbobcat heard. I don't see how anybody can interpret that as there being no "there there." There's certainly risk of a lawsuit, given the doctor's statement alone. If it's true this was a punishment, someone should be fired.

I agree with rpbobcat that the University should provide and update and a statement. But it's far from clear to me that there is nothing to this, and that rpbobcat wrestled for OU 50 years ago doesn't magically make him a witness.

Last Edited: 8/5/2023 3:21:09 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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