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Topic:  RE: Proposal to change Wayne National Forest to Buckeye National Forest

Topic:  RE: Proposal to change Wayne National Forest to Buckeye National Forest
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greencat
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Member Since: 3/12/2005
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  Message Not Read  RE: Proposal to change Wayne National Forest to Buckeye National Forest
   Posted: 8/31/2023 2:04:15 PM 
Show of hands... how many went to see "Oppenheimer" - ??

I bet half the people in the room where I saw it didn't even "get" what that "red scare" hearings was all about.
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OhioCatFan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Proposal to change Wayne National Forest to Buckeye National Forest
   Posted: 8/31/2023 4:13:20 PM 
greencat wrote:
Were Nixon and Reagan racists?

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/ronald-... /

Not to mention Nixon/Reagan ally Pat Buchanan and his nation-dividing chicanery.


I won't make excuses for that rhetoric. I wonder if you'll do the same for LBJ's rhetoric about African Americans, and the fairly good evidence that his support of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was more motivated by power politics than an actual sense of African American equality. This is, by the way, in sharp contrast to President Grant's support of the Civil Rights Act of 1875, which if not later eviscerated by the Supreme Court, would have made the 1964 act unnecessary. That Grant believed in racial equality is beyond a reasonable doubt, as so many of his actions as president were directed toward that end.

An analysis of whether LBJ ever said "I'll have those @)#()@@#$'s voting Democratic for 200 years" as a rationale for the Civil Rights Act of 1964:

https://tinyurl.com/9uh6zje

And, an analysis of U. S. Grant and Civil Rights:

https://tinyurl.com/4earvrs2

BTW, the Civil Rights Act of 1866, mentioned here, was passed before Grant was president. It was passed over Andrew Johnson's veto. Both the Klu Klux Bill of 1871 and the Civil Rights Act of 1875 were passed at the urging of Grant, who signed both bills.

An interesting side note that I only learned about recently is that his father, Jesse Grant, spent some time living with and working with Owen Brown, the father of John Brown, of Harper's Ferry fame. This undoubtedly help to shape Jesse's abolitionist attitudes, which he expressed for the rest of his life.

https://tinyurl.com/yfvw5nrz

And, yes, I know about Grant's anti-Jewish order during the Civil War -- the infamous General Order #11. For the rest of his life he regretted that order, and tried his best to make amends for it. Here's a quote from the National Park Service summarizing his attempts at atonement:

"When Grant was elected to be President of the United States in 1868, he tried to correct his mistake through a number of different actions. He appointing a record number of Jewish Americans to government offices during his eight years as president. When the Adas Israel Congregation opened its new Synagogue in Washington, D.C., in 1876, President Grant attended the three-hour ceremony. Grant also spoke out against Jewish persecution in other countries. While some Jewish people continued to harbor resentment for Grant’s actions [during the war], many in the community actually felt that he had become a friend and defender of their rights. When Grant died in July 1885, the Philadelphia Jewish Record exclaimed, 'None will mourn his loss more sincerely than the Hebrew.'”

Last Edited: 8/31/2023 8:49:57 PM by OhioCatFan


The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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JSF
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Location: Houston, TX
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  Message Not Read  RE: Proposal to change Wayne National Forest to Buckeye National Forest
   Posted: 9/2/2023 5:37:43 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
JSF wrote:
Jackson is a member of the club of people whose graves (in this case) or statues I've spit upon.


Just curious if you include Woodrow Wilson in that club.


His burial location makes the idea a little uncouth to me.


"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

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Alan Swank
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Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 6,886

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  Message Not Read  RE: Proposal to change Wayne National Forest to Buckeye National Forest
   Posted: 9/2/2023 6:12:31 PM 
greencat wrote:
Show of hands... how many went to see "Oppenheimer" - ??

I bet half the people in the room where I saw it didn't even "get" what that "red scare" hearings was all about.


Went and enjoyed it and "got" the red scare reference. That said, it's getting increasing difficult when speaking to groups of younger people to draw what many of us would call common analogies. The lack of cultural literacy makes drawing connections very difficult. That's why I'm a big fan of reintroducing civics as a college requirement in Ohio's state schools.
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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Proposal to change Wayne National Forest to Buckeye National Forest
   Posted: 9/3/2023 9:42:48 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:
greencat wrote:
Show of hands... how many went to see "Oppenheimer" - ??

I bet half the people in the room where I saw it didn't even "get" what that "red scare" hearings was all about.


Went and enjoyed it and "got" the red scare reference. That said, it's getting increasing difficult when speaking to groups of younger people to draw what many of us would call common analogies. The lack of cultural literacy makes drawing connections very difficult. That's why I'm a big fan of reintroducing civics as a college requirement in Ohio's state schools.


As if that would ever happen in the current knee-jerk political climate?

In a state where the governor's kid is on the state supreme court, where they tried to make 60% = "a majority" etc...
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Proposal to change Wayne National Forest to Buckeye National Forest
   Posted: 9/3/2023 1:46:07 PM 
greencat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
greencat wrote:
Show of hands... how many went to see "Oppenheimer" - ??

I bet half the people in the room where I saw it didn't even "get" what that "red scare" hearings was all about.


Went and enjoyed it and "got" the red scare reference. That said, it's getting increasing difficult when speaking to groups of younger people to draw what many of us would call common analogies. The lack of cultural literacy makes drawing connections very difficult. That's why I'm a big fan of reintroducing civics as a college requirement in Ohio's state schools.


As if that would ever happen in the current knee-jerk political climate?

In a state where the governor's kid is on the state supreme court, where they tried to make 60% = "a majority" etc...


Senate Bill 83 which has passed the Senate and is now before the house, actually requires said classes if it passes and is signed by the governor.

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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Proposal to change Wayne National Forest to Buckeye National Forest
   Posted: 9/4/2023 11:16:59 AM 
Will he require the curriculum be designed by Hillsdale College?**

**Like a certain proposed charter school in SE OH that seems to get threads removed.
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OUPride
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Member Since: 9/21/2010
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  Message Not Read  RE: Proposal to change Wayne National Forest to Buckeye National Forest
   Posted: 9/4/2023 11:29:42 AM 
greencat wrote:
Will he require the curriculum be designed by Hillsdale College?**

**Like a certain proposed charter school in SE OH that seems to get threads removed.


That's the rub. If the bill just requires students to take an existing class in US history or US politics, that's one thing. If they mandate a specific course that is designed outside of the universities and then forced upon them, then it will be a disaster.
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Alan Swank
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Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 6,886

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Proposal to change Wayne National Forest to Buckeye National Forest
   Posted: 9/4/2023 12:19:22 PM 
greencat wrote:
Were Nixon and Reagan racists?

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/ronald-... /

Not to mention Nixon/Reagan ally Pat Buchanan and his nation-dividing chicanery.


Section Sec. 3345.382 of Senate Bill 83 spells out the requirements.

https://search-prod.lis.state.oh.us/solarapi/v1/general_a...

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Jeff Johnson
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Post Count: 173

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  Message Not Read  RE: Proposal to change Wayne National Forest to Buckeye National Forest
   Posted: 9/5/2023 5:04:53 PM 
Campus Flow wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Campus Flow wrote:
Andrew Ruck wrote:
Changing the name at all = Stupid.

Changing it to Buckeye = Really stupid. Where would Buckeye Tree rank on the list of tree species found in the Wayne National Forest? About 157th?


They don't grow at all in the Ironton District of the Wayne National Forest which is about 40% of the park acreage.


Not at all? There are Buckeye trees all over the area, but not one in Ironton District of WNF? Strange. There is a big grove of Buckeye trees across the Hocking River from Frost, Ohio. Though I haven't really paid attention recently, there used to be a rather large one on THE Ohio University's Main Green.


This map says Ironton is out of range.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aesculus_glabra#/media/File...


My grandparents farm near Trimble in northern Athens County had many buckeye trees. Not part of WNF but close enough and wooded enough that it could have much the same species of trees.


Jeff Johnson '67, Albuquerque, New Mexico
Back in the Land of Enchantment

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