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Topic: RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....

Topic: RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....

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greencat
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RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....

Posted: 11/23/2021 5:33:29 PM

bobcatsquared wrote:

Ted Nugent and Kid Rock

Now "Kid Rock" can fall into the obscurity Nugent has occupied for how long now.

So, is Nugent playing the Monroe County fair in rural Mississippi this week?

bobcatsquared
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RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....

Posted: 11/23/2021 9:50:11 PM

greencat wrote:

So, is Nugent playing the Monroe County fair in rural Mississippi this week?

I think that show at the county fairgrounds falls in between a free concert at the local casino one county over from Monroe and a show preceding an independent pro wrestling match down the road in the middle school gym. Guns allowed but no masks.

rpbobcat
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RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....

Posted: 11/24/2021 6:52:31 AM

bobcatsquared wrote:

Does your change of heart have anything to do with Springsteen's outspoken political viewpoints? You wouldn't be the only one. Some of those who have been offended by Bruce's liberal slant have gravitated to Ted Nugent and Kid Rock and I say good riddance.

My change of heart has nothing to do with his politics, just his music.

Bruce has always been an outspoken liberal.
His fans, especially here in NJ ,are both conservative and liberal.
We know we'll get a political PSA (Public Service Announcement) at most of his shows.

In 2004 he joined with with Moveon.org for the Vote for Change Tour to
support John Kerry.

When NJ started to look competitive, he added a show in NJ.

A lot of people at that show had Re-elect George Bush Tee shirts on.

bobcatsquared
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RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....

Posted: 11/24/2021 10:39:17 AM

Springsteen, while not the same prolific writer/performer as he was when he was on the cover of Times and Newsweek at the same time or when he performed at Madison Square Garden as part of the No Nukes concert sandwiched in between his Darkness on the Edge of Town tour and The River tour, is still relevant. From his Broadway shows to his collaborations with Obama has seen to that. And don't be surprised if he is doing stadium shows in Europe and the US beginning in the spring of 2022. I might be more inclined to agree with you about his relevance when he starts playing county fairs.

Having said that, rpbobcat, be sure to get your hands on the just released video of the above-mentioned No Nukes concert.

Last Edited: 11/24/2021 10:39:41 AM by bobcatsquared

greencat
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RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....

Posted: 11/24/2021 11:32:57 AM

Most of the classic singer/songwriters just are not as good at it as they get older. Roger Waters once said that the best songwriters all have/had an axe to grind. Besides himself, he named Neil Young, Bob Dylan, and John Lennon as examples.

Maybe it's harder to stay pi55ed off at an older age with millions of bucks in the bank... unless it's faux outrage like that comical "kid rock" thing. If you can call a 50-something year old a "kid." (maybe mentally he is)

That role he played in "Joe Dirt" was soooooooooo him.

As far as mainstream rock by old guys, that last AC/DC album was surprisingly not bad. It sounded just like stuff off "Flick of the Switch" and that was 1983.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54LEywabkl4&list=OLAK5uy_...

greencat
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RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....

Posted: 11/25/2021 12:01:56 AM

bobcatsquared wrote:

Kid Rock fans can enjoy his latest masterpiece, which might set a record for most f-bombs and other highly intelligent lyrics (kind of ties in with greencat's rant on rap music): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agvibm7Wqy4

By the way, he didn't even really write that song. Those rednecks in the video with him wrote that around five years ago. He simply took it and threw a heaping helping of ignorance and vulgarity on top, to pander to his KKK base and all.

The actual song untainted by his BS...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zdeo-i6uw5g

rpbobcat
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RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....

Posted: 11/25/2021 10:40:59 AM

bobcatsquared wrote:

Guess it depends on how you define "relevant".

I've been going to Springsteen shows, since he played O.U.'s Folk Fest.

Been to well over 80 shows,(stopped counting at 80) all over the states.

In this area, it used to be next to impossible to get tickets to shows, except from scalpers, or if you were lucky enough to get "drops".
Still remember waiting on line for hours,outside Tower Records.
Or online at Izod Arena or Giants Stadium the day of a show waiting for drops.

On his 2016 tour,none of his 3 Metlife shows sold out in advance,even though they sold a lot less seats.
My wife and I got good seats,at the box office,the day of the shows.

He used to sell out 10 nights at Giants stadium,the day the shows went on sale.

He hasn't done any touring for his recent albums.
All he did was a "movie for Western Stars in 2019.

This indicates to me,that he's not as relevant or at least as popular, as he was.

Springsteen on Broadway was O.K.,but very expensive.
People liked it, in part,because of the small venue.

Seeing him in concert with the E Street and Seeger Sessions Bands at the Asbury Park Convention Center was much more "intimate" and fun.

As far as a 20202 Stadium Tour, I'm not optimistic.
A number of people,including my wife and I, noticed how much trouble Bruce had walking across the stage during S.O.B.

Saw him do a couple of songs with Joe Gurshkey a couple of years ago.

The video was up on you tube.
He had on really heavy duty knee braces.

Just don't see him doing a rocking 3 hour show anymore.

No Nukes was a Concert I tried,but couldn't get seats.

I actually got the CD's and DVD's the day they came out.

Hoping I get the vinyl records fro Christmas.

OrlandoCat
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RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....

Posted: 11/30/2021 4:21:12 PM

greencat wrote:

Young Dolph, a high-profile Memphis rapper, was killed in a shooting Wednesday while inside a cookie bakery on Airways Boulevard, Memphis police said.

previously involving this one rapper:

In February of 2017, in Charlotte, North Carolina, a suspect fired more than 100 rounds at a heavily armored SUV that Thornton would later credit with saving his life.

and

Later in 2017, Thornton was critically injured after a suspect shot him multiple times outside of a Hollywood hotel in Los Angeles.

https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/news/2021/11/17/yo... /

So to summarize; guns do not kill people, it was the rap music all along.

Alan Swank
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RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....

Posted: 11/30/2021 10:25:26 PM

Interesting thread. Relevance is a relative term. Relevance to whom? Saw Springteen at Polaris when he did the Seeger Sessions tour and cracked up when some folks walked out. Did they read the advertisements on what the show was about? Saw CSN&Y at the same venue when Neil released Living with War and saw lots of pisssed off future Trumpeters walk out cussing down the aisle. What did you expect folks?

How many of us over 50 can still dunk or go to the hoop with authority? The average age of the classic bands is 75 yet lots and lots of folks still listen to them and know many if not most of the words. Will the 20 to 40 year old cohort do the same in 50 years with the stuff coming out today? It ain't happening.

Manufactured music with profane lyrics isn't what one of us wants our daughters and granddaghters to listen too. Don't Step on the Grass Sam and The Pusher are lame compared to this stuff today

rpbobcat
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RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....

Posted: 12/1/2021 11:12:38 AM

Alan Swank wrote:

Great post.

My wife and I were amazed at how many Bruce fans didn't give the Seeger Sessions a chance.
Didn't even listen to the CD.

Yet, when he played American Land on his E Street tours, fans liked it.

I have nieces and nephews in their 20'- 30's.
What do they listen to ?
Classic Rock/Country.

Sometimes when I'm working out at Gold's, they have on "crap rap".
The lyrics are things like "_______ the bitch"," N word _________".

That's "music".

One songwriter said "What ever happened to that thing called "melody".

I agree that today's music won't stand the "test of time".

Then again, I feel the same about Bruce's recent "Working On A Dream"," Wrecking Ball" "Western Stars" and "Letter To You".

Last Edited: 12/1/2021 11:15:36 AM by rpbobcat

bobcatsquared
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RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....

Posted: 12/1/2021 1:07:24 PM

Alan, I was at that Seeger Session concert with my brother.

My daughter, 22 and Ohio University class of 2021 grad, still gives me a hard time about attending that show because it was the only time I missed a game in her soccer/softball playing career.

greencat
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RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....

Posted: 12/1/2021 4:09:32 PM

OrlandoCat wrote:

So to summarize; guns do not kill people, it was the rap music all along.

Gangsta rappers and their associates with guns kill plenty of people including each other.

--------------------------------------------------------
Philips reported that "the shooting was carried out by a Compton gang called the Southside Crips to avenge the beating of one of its members by Shakur a few hours earlier. Orlando Anderson, the Crip whom Shakur had attacked, fired the fatal shots.
--------------------------------------------------------
FBI agent alleges that rapper Notorious B.I.G. was killed by a hitman hired by Suge Knight.
--------------------------------------------------------
In January 2008, Knight was one of the members of the Mob Piru street gang in a crackdown by authorities in the city of Compton
--------------------------------------------------------
(2021) Suge Knight was recently charged by Los Angeles police last month with the murder of Terry Carter and the attempted murder of Cle "Bone" Sloan.

^ ^ maybe there is a patter here?? ^ ^

Kevin Finnegan
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RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....

Posted: 12/1/2021 5:15:31 PM

greencat wrote:

OrlandoCat wrote:

So to summarize; guns do not kill people, it was the rap music all along.

What you've found is correlation that does not necessarily create causation. The reality is that you are speaking about gang violence. Many of these cases you speak of were carried out by members of gangs, sometimes on other gang members. It may or may not have been rap music-related. Many of these artists (and yes, I do think it's a talent...Tupac was quite a poet) were involved in gang life before they were famous. Watch the Biggie special on Netflix. It talks about his days on the streets selling drugs before he became famous. That's an entirely different upbringing than Dylan or Springsteen.

What isn't evident is that these murders were necessarily the cause of any of their music. It is a group of individuals who come from a rougher upbringing and they aren't always able to outrun their past. Tupac was in jail before he had a successful career. 50 Cent was shot before ever starting on the scene. Some of them use rap to get out of their tough neighborhoods. However, it's not necessarily their music, but rather other things, that leads to their demise.

And as for the many posts regarding Suge Knight, he wasn't ever a rapper. He used drug money to found a rap label, but he himself was not on records. Wouldn't that be like connecting the Beatles to Phil Spector?

As for the likely lifespan of some of this music, I can tell you this. My son is into Tupac at 13. I was also into Tupac at 13 and still enjoy listening to it when I'm skiing, working out, or running. Similarly with Biggie or many other rappers from the 90's. It's far more impressive than the heavy metal music from my childhood in my eyes. Today's doesn't interest me at all, but that's less for the lyrics and more for the fact that it sounds so synthesized. However, if I hear a new song by Nas (whom I saw at OHIO in front of a sold out crowd in 2002), I'm always in.

greencat
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RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....

Posted: 12/1/2021 10:19:52 PM

Oh yeah, that Tupac was a real poet. Just like Robert Louis Stevenson. NOT

Here is some Tupac "poetry"

First off, **uck your b**ch and the click you claim
Westside when we ride come equipped with game
You claim to be a player but I **cked your wife
We bust on Bad Boy **iggaz **cked for life
Plus Puffy tryin' ta see me weak hearts I rip
Biggie Smalls and Junior M.A.F.I.A. Some mark-@ss **tches
We keep on comin' while we runnin' for yo' jewels
Steady gunnin, keep on bustin at them fools, you know the rules
Lil' Ceaser, go ask ya homie how I leave ya
Cut your young @ss up, leave you in pieces, now be deceased
Lil' Kim, don't **ck around with real G's
Quick to snatch yo' ugly @ss off the streets, so **ck peace
I let them **ggaz know it's on for life
So let the Westside ride tonight
Bad Boy murdered on wax and killed
**ck wit' me and get yo' caps peeled, you know, see....

------------------------------------------------------------

But at least it's not "metal" from back in the day, when Iron Maiden was writing lyrics based on Greek mythology such as...

As the sun breaks above the ground
An old man stands on the hill
As the ground warms to the first rays of light
A birdsong shatters the still
His eyes are ablaze
See the madman in his gaze
Fly on your way, like an eagle
Fly as high as the sun
On your way, like an eagle
Fly, touch the sun...

But it doesn't spew violence against women, f-bombs, and the n-word. What the heck kind of "poetry" did they think they were writing there????????

KyleWvr13
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RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....

Posted: 12/2/2021 1:33:58 AM

greencat wrote:

Oh yeah, that Tupac was a real poet. Just like Robert Louis Stevenson. NOT

Here is some Tupac "poetry"

First off, **uck your b**ch and the click you claim
Westside when we ride come equipped with game
You claim to be a player but I **cked your wife
We bust on Bad Boy **iggaz **cked for life
Plus Puffy tryin' ta see me weak hearts I rip
Biggie Smalls and Junior M.A.F.I.A. Some mailto:mailto:mailto:mark-@ss **tches
We keep on comin' while we runnin' for yo' jewels
Steady gunnin, keep on bustin at them fools, you know the rules
Lil' Ceaser, go ask ya homie how I leave ya
Cut your young @ss up, leave you in pieces, now be deceased
Lil' Kim, don't **ck around with real G's
Quick to snatch yo' ugly @ss off the streets, so **ck peace
I let them **ggaz know it's on for life
So let the Westside ride tonight
Bad Boy murdered on wax and killed
**ck wit' me and get yo' caps peeled, you know, see....

------------------------------------------------------------

But at least it's not "metal" from back in the day, when Iron Maiden was writing lyrics based on Greek mythology such as...

As the sun breaks above the ground
An old man stands on the hill
As the ground warms to the first rays of light
A birdsong shatters the still
His eyes are ablaze
See the madman in his gaze
Fly on your way, like an eagle
Fly as high as the sun
On your way, like an eagle
Fly, touch the sun...

But it doesn't spew violence against women, f-bombs, and the n-word. What the heck kind of "poetry" did they think they were writing there????????

This thread is a golden example of "old man shakes fist at cloud"

You cherry-picked the example of Iron Maiden and their lyrics, but there were PLENTY of other metal bands around the same time with violent and grotesque lyrics. Just look up a few lyrics from Cannibal Corpse, Slayer, and Exodus and tell me how "poetic" they are... And there are plenty of metal acts today that play the same angsty/violent/misogynistic schtick, but you don't hear people saying that these lyrics are causing people to commit mass murder on the same scale that rap allegedly does.

Its literally the same weak argument that "Dungeons and Dragons is turning children into devil worshipers" was prevalent in the 80s and 90s. its ridiculous and is just an easy way for people to blame problems to a single point, rather than acknowledging that there are a multitude of factors that are really at fault.

If you dont like rap or its various sub-genres... "yeah... well you know that's just like, your opinion man."

Last Edited: 12/2/2021 1:42:13 AM by KyleWvr13

OrlandoCat
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RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....

Posted: 12/2/2021 9:51:31 AM

greencat wrote:

Oh yeah, that Tupac was a real poet. Just like Robert Louis Stevenson. NOT

Here is some Tupac "poetry"

First off, **uck your b**ch and the click you claim
Westside when we ride come equipped with game
You claim to be a player but I **cked your wife
We bust on Bad Boy **iggaz **cked for life
Plus Puffy tryin' ta see me weak hearts I rip
Biggie Smalls and Junior M.A.F.I.A. Some mailto:mailto:mark-@ss **tches
We keep on comin' while we runnin' for yo' jewels
Steady gunnin, keep on bustin at them fools, you know the rules
Lil' Ceaser, go ask ya homie how I leave ya
Cut your young @ss up, leave you in pieces, now be deceased
Lil' Kim, don't **ck around with real G's
Quick to snatch yo' ugly @ss off the streets, so **ck peace
I let them **ggaz know it's on for life
So let the Westside ride tonight
Bad Boy murdered on wax and killed
**ck wit' me and get yo' caps peeled, you know, see....

------------------------------------------------------------

But at least it's not "metal" from back in the day, when Iron Maiden was writing lyrics based on Greek mythology such as...

As the sun breaks above the ground
An old man stands on the hill
As the ground warms to the first rays of light
A birdsong shatters the still
His eyes are ablaze
See the madman in his gaze
Fly on your way, like an eagle
Fly as high as the sun
On your way, like an eagle
Fly, touch the sun...

But it doesn't spew violence against women, f-bombs, and the n-word. What the heck kind of "poetry" did they think they were writing there????????

Cool story and all, but you forgot this banger:

Run for Your Life - The Beatles

Well, I'd rather see you dead, little girl
Than to be with another man
You better keep your head, little girl
Or I won't know where I am

You better run for your life if you can, little girl
Hide your head in the sand, little girl
Catch you with another man
That's the end, little girl

Well, you know that I'm a wicked guy
And I was born with a jealous mind
And I can't spend my whole life
Trying just to make you toe the line

You better run for your life if you can, little girl
Hide your head in the sand, little girl
Catch you with another man
That's the end, little girl

The whole song is basically a death threat; not to mention the misogyny in referring to, I assume, a grown woman as a 'little girl.'

So maybe, and I'm just going out on a limb here, but maybe there are other factors in play *cough*poverty*cough* that lead to violent crime as opposed to listening to a song by Tupac.

Last Edited: 12/2/2021 9:54:07 AM by OrlandoCat

greencat
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RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....

Posted: 12/2/2021 11:31:19 AM

I've never heard of "Cannibal Corpse" and have never met anybody who was a fan of him/them. If they created an entire epidemic of "thug life" drugs/gangs/violence, never heard about it. (because it didn't happen)

Johnny Cash sang "I shot a man in Reno" in 1957. I'm pretty sure that didn't create an entire epidemic of "thug life" drugs/gangs/violence. Sun Records never had a gang war vs RCA Records. No amount of "but-but-but...what about" deflections can excuse hardcore gangsta rap garbage. It's vile and degenerate BS.

OrlandoCat
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RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....

Posted: 12/2/2021 11:36:33 AM

greencat wrote:

but that's just like your opinion man.

greencat
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RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....

Posted: 12/2/2021 12:05:46 PM

OrlandoCat wrote:

but that's just like your opinion man.

So was the people who said the emperor was naked. His package was hanging out for the world to see, but they insisted his new clothes were awesome. Sort of like the people who are gangsta rap apologists. Just like people who can't quit smoking cigs, so they insist it's not toxic and carcinogenic. Just like people who won't go get vaccinated even after their previously healthy 23 year old nephew ends up in the ICU on a respirator from covid.

Denial. It's not a river in Egypt.

OrlandoCat
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RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....

Posted: 12/2/2021 12:35:41 PM

greencat wrote:

OrlandoCat wrote:

but that's just like your opinion man.

Your musical tastes are opinion. Period.

Violent crime happened long before rap was a thing, and will continue should rap ever become not a thing.

If you have any peer-reviewed articles showing more than a correlation between listening to rap and actual violence, I'd be interested in reading them.

Otherwise, this is all conjecture on your part... unlike the emperor who was, in-fact, naked.

greencat
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RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....

Posted: 12/2/2021 1:22:49 PM

This was 2006.

quote:
A recent study by the Prevention Research Center of the Pacific Institute for Research and Evaluation in Berkeley, Calif., suggests young people who listen to rap and hip-hop are more likely to abuse alcohol and commit violent acts. Ed Gordon discusses the issue with Denise Herd, an associate professor at the University of California Berkeley School of Public Health, and David Jernigan, executive director of the Center on Alcohol Marketing and Youth at Georgetown University.

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=539...

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Drugs, gangs, violence... rap is the soundtrack to thuggish destructive antisocial behavior and glamorizing criminality. And that is NOT opinion. It is undeniable and factual.

Kevin Finnegan
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RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....

Posted: 12/2/2021 1:32:20 PM

It seems you have a soapbox you're unwilling to budge from, despite having nothing more than a couple of (sometimes scattered) anecdotes. However, here's something interesting that is based in fact.

It's likely hard to pinpoint the exact start of gangsta rap. Early rap with Run DMC and others started in the early 80s, but the first real example of rough stuff came with NWA. Their Straight Outta Compton album came out in 1988. That's probably as good a starting place as any to determine the birth of Gangsta Rap.

How about this? The crime rate has been falling precipitously since that time. The crime rate in 1988 for violent crime in America was 637 incidents per 100,000 residents in the USA. In 2019, it had dropped all the way to 379 per 100,000 residents. That's a MASSIVE drop. So, in the time where you feel that gangsta rap has been a menace to society (see what I did there?), the crime rate has been significantly lower.

Actually, those glory days of the 1970's where music was better and not about violence? You guessed it, the US had a higher violent crime rate then than it does now. Sorry if that doesn't fit the narrative, though. Murder rate from 1970-1979 ranged from 7.9 to 9.8 murders per 100,000 people. From 2010-2019? From 4.4 to 5.4 murders per 100,000...almost cut in half.

https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-viole... /

greencat
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RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....

Posted: 12/2/2021 2:32:06 PM

And the crime rates in places associated with gangsta rap has gone off the charts.

Memphis crime rates are 237% higher than the national average; Violent crimes in Memphis are 506% higher than the national average.

Oakland crime rates are 175% higher than the national average � Violent crimes in Oakland are 233% higher than the national average.

With a crime rate of 54 per one thousand residents, Atlanta has one of the highest crime rates in America - the chance of becoming a victim of either violent or property crime in Atlanta is one in 18.

And in the emerging rap stronghold of Baton Rouge, LA... it is the 7th least safe city in America.

-----------------------------------------------------

And to call the University of California Berkeley School of Public Health and the executive director of the Center on Alcohol Marketing and Youth at Georgetown University... scattered anecdotes...

Again, "denial" is not just a river in Egypt.

Last Edited: 12/2/2021 2:35:11 PM by greencat

Kevin Finnegan
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RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....

Posted: 12/2/2021 3:28:38 PM

Wait, there's more violent crime in cities than in rural areas? That's what you're getting at? That must be the result of gangsta rap. You seem to be the authority, seeing as you know the up-and-coming scene. The fact that a city like Memphis is higher than the national average isn't surprising. I'm betting it has always been that way. Cities are more likely to have crime due to population density, poverty, and a myriad of other factors. I'd be surprised to hear the Memphis mayor mention that the reason the city is above the national average is because of rap.

OrlandoCat
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RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....

Posted: 12/2/2021 3:39:33 PM

greencat wrote:

From your own link, and the professor behind the study:

The Study wrote:

Ms. HERD: I think the youth are right, it is a societal problem, and that in part, hip hop in reflecting society is picking up on norms across the country. And I think that when we look at hip hop and that relationship to black youth--I mean, my concern is that African American youth are more vulnerable, due to social status; due to not having the political opportunities in expression; the educational opportunities. So this is a more vulnerable population.

And I also think that, in contrast to the way the people often think about it, this community has had strengths in protecting their youth from over indulgence in alcoholic beverages. So that protective factor, I believe, is being torn away by the increasing targeting of the community in the advertising and so forth.

The findings seem to be that the society is influencing the music, NOT the other way around.

Last Edited: 12/2/2021 3:50:53 PM by OrlandoCat

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