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Author Message OrlandoCat General User Member Since: 3/15/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 355 Status: Offline     RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....    Posted: 12/2/2021 3:49:31 PM  greencat wrote: And the crime rates in places associated with gangsta rap has gone off the charts. Memphis crime rates are 237% higher than the national average; Violent crimes in Memphis are 506% higher than the national average. Oakland crime rates are 175% higher than the national average · Violent crimes in Oakland are 233% higher than the national average. With a crime rate of 54 per one thousand residents, Atlanta has one of the highest crime rates in America - the chance of becoming a victim of either violent or property crime in Atlanta is one in 18. And in the emerging rap stronghold of Baton Rouge, LA... it is the 7th least safe city in America. ----------------------------------------------------- And to call the University of California Berkeley School of Public Health and the executive director of the Center on Alcohol Marketing and Youth at Georgetown University... scattered anecdotes... Again, "denial" is not just a river in Egypt. Gee, if only there was some other factor that all those cities have in common that the professors talked about in the link you provided but apparently didn't bother to read... National Poverty Rate: 13.4% Memphis Poverty Rate: 21.7% Oakland Poverty Rate: 18.7% Atlanta Poverty Rate: 22.4% Baton Rouge Poverty Rate: 26% It's almost as if the poverty rate might have something more to do with both the crime rate and musical taste, rather than musical taste leading to crime. Back to Top greencat General User Member Since: 3/12/2005 Post Count: 2,199 Status: Offline     RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....    Posted: 12/2/2021 5:07:17 PM  The gang members are certainly not listening to Rush or Queen while they are hitting the crack pipe and carjacking innocent people, are they? I suppose "Fat Bottom Girls" by Queen could be considered sexist, but that is a stretch at best, seeing as Spinal Tap did a hilarious parody of it (Big Bottoms). Back to Top OrlandoCat General User Member Since: 3/15/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 355 Status: Offline     RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....    Posted: 12/2/2021 6:41:01 PM  greencat wrote: The gang members are certainly not listening to Rush or Queen while they are hitting the crack pipe and carjacking innocent people, are they? I suppose "Fat Bottom Girls" by Queen could be considered sexist, but that is a stretch at best, seeing as Spinal Tap did a hilarious parody of it (Big Bottoms). And more drownings occur when more ice cream is consumed. Doesn’t mean there’s a cause and effect. Back to Top greencat General User Member Since: 3/12/2005 Post Count: 2,199 Status: Offline     RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....    Posted: 12/2/2021 8:55:42 PM  Mom always said "wait 30 minutes to go in the water." The ice cream manufacturers are negligent for not putting warning labels on their products. I hope United Dairy Farmers have a good legal staff. Back to Top JSF General User Member Since: 1/29/2005 Location: Houston, TX Post Count: 6,389 Status: Offline     RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....    Posted: 12/2/2021 9:17:53 PM  So we've got straight-up racism, ageism, and paternalism so far in this thread. Someone break out the bingo card. I don't know why OP comes here to talk about Nashville and dredge up conservative talking points from three decades ago. Psst. Hey. I hear violent video games may have caused Columbine! "Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season. My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8 Back to Top greencat General User Member Since: 3/12/2005 Post Count: 2,199 Status: Offline     RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....    Posted: 12/2/2021 10:18:11 PM  JSF wrote: So we've got straight-up racism, ageism, and paternalism so far in this thread. Someone break out the bingo card. I don't know why OP comes here to talk about Nashville and dredge up conservative talking points from three decades ago. Psst. Hey. I hear violent video games may have caused Columbine! I'm actually a life-long Democrat and THIS you will really get a kick out of. I was at a reception for (D) presidential nominee Michael Dukakis in 1988 hosted by Governor McWherter and Senator (at the time) Al Gore. I had been battling in the local media against Tipper Gore and Susan Baker who mistakenly though stuff like Van Halen and Kiss was controversial. I shook hands with Sen. Gore but his wife wouldn't come near me. She resisted even looking at me. Funny now. By the way, I probably have a copy of "Bowling for Columbine" around the house somewhere. Seemed like a really cool flick at the time. The ending was classic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC2QaWmat7A Back to Top JSF General User Member Since: 1/29/2005 Location: Houston, TX Post Count: 6,389 Status: Offline     RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....    Posted: 12/3/2021 12:04:49 AM  Being a Democrat doesn't mean anything. Jesse Helms was a lifelong Democrat. "Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season. My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8 Back to Top Jeff McKinney Moderator Member Since: 11/12/2004 Post Count: 6,091 Status: Offline     RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....    Posted: 12/3/2021 1:33:15 AM  JSF wrote: Being a Democrat doesn't mean anything. Jesse Helms was a lifelong Democrat. Not so. He was a Republican from 1970 to 2008. Back to Top greencat General User Member Since: 3/12/2005 Post Count: 2,199 Status: Offline     RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....    Posted: 12/3/2021 8:33:54 AM  There is a misconception that if a person views hardcore rap as complete garbage, they must be some sort of racist. Truth is, people can view hardcore rap as worthless garbage because they are not afraid of using common sense. And....drumroll...there are white hardcore rappers. I hope people already know this. I've never met a single Hendrix fan that would give a red cent for all the rap in the world. Last time I checked, Jimi was black. As was BB King, Albert King, John Lee Hooker, Wayne Shorter, Stanley Clarke, etc. And fans of their music certainly don't listen to gangsta rap. Back to Top OrlandoCat General User Member Since: 3/15/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 355 Status: Offline     RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....    Posted: 12/6/2021 2:34:36 PM  greencat wrote: There is a misconception that if a person views hardcore rap as complete garbage, they must be some sort of racist. Truth is, people can view hardcore rap as worthless garbage because they are not afraid of using common sense. And....drumroll...there are white hardcore rappers. I hope people already know this. I've never met a single Hendrix fan that would give a red cent for all the rap in the world. Last time I checked, Jimi was black. As was BB King, Albert King, John Lee Hooker, Wayne Shorter, Stanley Clarke, etc. And fans of their music certainly don't listen to gangsta rap. The misconception is happening when you jump from 'gangsta rap is crappy music' to 'gangsta rap is causing crime.' Back to Top greencat General User Member Since: 3/12/2005 Post Count: 2,199 Status: Offline     RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....    Posted: 12/6/2021 3:32:56 PM  One group of gangsta rappers spent four years trying to assassinate the rival gangsta rapper. And they final succeeded. (See the original posts) This crap keeps happening. Thus, if murder is considered a crime, gangsta rap is a cause of crime. Unless murder and attempted murder "doesn't count." But, you can keep listening to it if you think it benefits anything. I don't. Back to Top OrlandoCat General User Member Since: 3/15/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 355 Status: Offline     RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....    Posted: 12/6/2021 3:46:34 PM  greencat wrote: One group of gangsta rappers spent four years trying to assassinate the rival gangsta rapper. And they final succeeded. (See the original posts) This crap keeps happening. Thus, if murder is considered a crime, gangsta rap is a cause of crime. Unless murder and attempted murder "doesn't count." But, you can keep listening to it if you think it benefits anything. I don't. And a NASA astronaut once drove from Houston to Orlando to kidnap and attempt to murder the girlfriend of another astronaut. Nobody tried to blame her motives on space exploration; because antidotal evidence is antidotal. Last Edited: 12/6/2021 3:47:00 PM by OrlandoCat Back to Top greencat General User Member Since: 3/12/2005 Post Count: 2,199 Status: Offline     RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....    Posted: 12/6/2021 3:58:20 PM  There is nothing "anecdotal" about gang rivalries. It's in the words of their "songs." Gang wars and murders are real. The gangsters boast about it. They get their bodies tattooed with messages about it. Sometimes courts convict them of it. Also real are people who stick their head in the sand to try to pretend otherwise. But enjoy your gangsta rap and the positive message it conveys. Back to Top OrlandoCat General User Member Since: 3/15/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 355 Status: Offline     RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....    Posted: 12/6/2021 4:23:14 PM  greencat wrote: There is nothing "anecdotal" about gang rivalries. It's in the words of their "songs." Gang wars and murders are real. The gangsters boast about it. They get their bodies tattooed with messages about it. Sometimes courts convict them of it. Also real are people who stick their head in the sand to try to pretend otherwise. But enjoy your gangsta rap and the positive message it conveys. Also real are people who ignore all other contributing factors and just blame it on 'that damn rap music.' Back to Top greencat General User Member Since: 3/12/2005 Post Count: 2,199 Status: Offline     RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....    Posted: 12/6/2021 5:02:52 PM  Then start a contributing factors thread about how rival gangsta rappers kill each other because they weren't breast fed as infants and now resent and disrespect women or had undiagnosed ADHD so they couldn't learn well enough to finish middle school thus had to turn to a life of crime. Go for it. I'm socially mostly a liberal, so I won't call you a tree hugger. Not sure how others will respond though. This should be interesting to see. Back to Top Ten Win Tim General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Alexandria, VA Post Count: 4,973 Status: Offline     RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....    Posted: 12/6/2021 5:39:44 PM  greencat wrote: Then start a contributing factors thread about how rival gangsta rappers kill each other because they weren't breast fed as infants and now resent and disrespect women or had undiagnosed ADHD so they couldn't learn well enough to finish middle school thus had to turn to a life of crime. Go for it. I'm socially mostly a liberal, so I won't call you a tree hugger. Not sure how others will respond though. This should be interesting to see. The last couple of times I was out in California every trendy restaurant I walked into blasted "gangsta" rap. At a sushi bar 70 year olds eating sushi listening to to it. They have a big sense of pride around gangsta rap. Fly into San Francisco and in the concourse visitor center for Oakland they show pictures of gangsta rappers. I'm not making this up. Recently I was having lunch at a sports pub and the bartender was from California. I asked why do they play gangsta rap in the restaurants in California? He was mind you 35 but his perspective was its what we all grew up with, its just what we know. Then I asked him for how long had it been socially acceptable in restaurants and he since at least 2006 at the latest. My experiences with the gansta rap were in San Francisco and Santa Barbara so I'm not sure if it applies for Palm Springs with its retirement community focus. I guess the whole get off my lawn premise on gangsta rap is out of date by at least 25 years. Nobody has taken it seriously for that long. Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended 2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round 2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl 2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086 Back to Top Ten Win Tim General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Alexandria, VA Post Count: 4,973 Status: Offline     RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....    Posted: 12/6/2021 6:11:30 PM  Kevin Finnegan wrote: It seems you have a soapbox you're unwilling to budge from, despite having nothing more than a couple of (sometimes scattered) anecdotes. However, here's something interesting that is based in fact. It's likely hard to pinpoint the exact start of gangsta rap. Early rap with Run DMC and others started in the early 80s, but the first real example of rough stuff came with NWA. Their Straight Outta Compton album came out in 1988. That's probably as good a starting place as any to determine the birth of Gangsta Rap. How about this? The crime rate has been falling precipitously since that time. The crime rate in 1988 for violent crime in America was 637 incidents per 100,000 residents in the USA. In 2019, it had dropped all the way to 379 per 100,000 residents. That's a MASSIVE drop. So, in the time where you feel that gangsta rap has been a menace to society (see what I did there?), the crime rate has been significantly lower. Actually, those glory days of the 1970's where music was better and not about violence? You guessed it, the US had a higher violent crime rate then than it does now. Sorry if that doesn't fit the narrative, though. Murder rate from 1970-1979 ranged from 7.9 to 9.8 murders per 100,000 people. From 2010-2019? From 4.4 to 5.4 murders per 100,000...almost cut in half. https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-viole... / Music in the 70's on the radio was bubble gum. Music fans began desire reality based music in contrast to that. By the late 80's the crack epidemic was at its peak so that jumped into music as subject matter. Then the second generation of gangsta rap and I'd figure NWA, Tupac, Snoop Doggy took it further to make it sound authentic. Probably 1993 is when it blew up to become a national thing and by the mid 90's scenes were going in places like Memphis and Atlanta which caught on much later and they presented new sounds. Then late 90's it was alternative rap as fans grew tired of the gansta themes. There really hasn't been much new ground in 15-20 years and music sales have fallen off the cliff since their peak in 99'. Rap isn't a cultural force anymore like it was in the 90's. For sure there are still pockets of interest in it and fans of it but its not a serious societal factor. Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended 2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round 2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl 2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086 Back to Top greencat General User Member Since: 3/12/2005 Post Count: 2,199 Status: Offline     RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....    Posted: 12/6/2021 6:46:11 PM  Crackheads loved gangsta rap? Shocking! (not) I had a feeling that gang bangers were not listening to Rush or Steely Dan when they were hitting the crack pipe and carjacking the people at the gas station. Back to Top Ten Win Tim General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Alexandria, VA Post Count: 4,973 Status: Offline     RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....    Posted: 12/6/2021 7:49:21 PM  greencat wrote: Crackheads loved gangsta rap? Shocking! (not) I had a feeling that gang bangers were not listening to Rush or Steely Dan when they were hitting the crack pipe and carjacking the people at the gas station. Criminals played the Rush and Steely Dan, white kids from the suburbs bought the rap at the record store, at least prior to 1995. Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended 2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round 2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl 2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086 Back to Top greencat General User Member Since: 3/12/2005 Post Count: 2,199 Status: Offline     RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....    Posted: 12/6/2021 8:24:25 PM  Yeah, that Steely Dan Aja album was big with carjackers and gang members. ROTFLM friggin' AO Jazz-rock fusion = the favorite of violent criminals everywhere!! Back to Top greencat General User Member Since: 3/12/2005 Post Count: 2,199 Status: Offline     RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....    Posted: 12/6/2021 9:15:22 PM  Club Hyatt wrote: Criminals played the Rush and Steely Dan, white kids from the suburbs bought the rap at the record store, at least prior to 1995. The favorite Rush lyrics of violent criminals: And the men who hold high places Must be the ones who start To mold a new reality Closer to the heart Closer to the heart The blacksmith and the artist Reflect it in their art They forge their creativity Closer to the heart Yes closer to the heart Philosophers and ploughmen Each must know his part To sow a new mentality Closer to the heart Last Edited: 12/6/2021 9:16:50 PM by greencat Back to Top Ten Win Tim General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Alexandria, VA Post Count: 4,973 Status: Offline     RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....    Posted: 12/7/2021 12:28:13 AM  greencat wrote: Yeah, that Steely Dan Aja album was big with carjackers and gang members. ROTFLM friggin' AO Jazz-rock fusion = the favorite of violent criminals everywhere!! Real criminals aren't focused on rap. Is the storytelling in rap any different than listening to crime novel? Why don't you try some rap? Start with the Wu Tang Clan, mafioso rap. Then if you can spit those lyrics you really know what you are talking about. Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended 2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round 2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl 2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086 Back to Top rpbobcat General User Member Since: 4/28/2006 Location: Rochelle Park, NJ Post Count: 3,545 Status: Offline     RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....    Posted: 12/7/2021 6:56:34 AM  I really don't listen to rap, so I don't know if this is considered "gangsta" rap or some other genre. I had posted that, about the only time I hear any rap ,is when I work out at Gold's. I'm surprised there isn't any outrage from women's groups about how women are portrayed in a number of songs. "_________ the bitch" and lyrics like that are pretty demeaning. But no one seems to have a problem with them. Back to Top Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame General User Member Since: 7/30/2010 Post Count: 3,435 Status: Offline     RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....    Posted: 12/7/2021 8:08:29 AM  rpbobcat wrote: I really don't listen to rap, so I don't know if this is considered "gangsta" rap or some other genre. I had posted that, about the only time I hear any rap ,is when I work out at Gold's. I'm surprised there isn't any outrage from women's groups about how women are portrayed in a number of songs. "_________ the bitch" and lyrics like that are pretty demeaning. But no one seems to have a problem with them. There's actually quite a bit of discussion about this and it's a prevalent topic. I don't think it's correct to say no one seems to have a problem with those lyrics. Back to Top rpbobcat General User Member Since: 4/28/2006 Location: Rochelle Park, NJ Post Count: 3,545 Status: Offline     RE: Not specifically Ohio related.....but....    Posted: 12/7/2021 9:46:02 AM  Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote: There's actually quite a bit of discussion about this and it's a prevalent topic. I don't think it's correct to say no one seems to have a problem with those lyrics. Do you know where exactly ? Given the lyrics, I would think women's organizations would be condemning this all over the internet and on cable news. But I haven't seen it. 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