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Topic:  RE: Official Game 18 Thread: Toledo

Topic:  RE: Official Game 18 Thread: Toledo
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M.D.W.S.T
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 18 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 1/17/2023 7:48:52 PM 
OU_Country wrote:
Diamond Cat wrote:
Well...either watch 1923 (again) or power thru a 2nd viewing of the 3 hour Good Morning Football. Dear Lord.


How about a 77th viewing of Dazed and Confused?

(seems appropriate for tonight for some reason)


Alright, alright, alright...
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Cats5
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 18 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 1/17/2023 7:50:44 PM 
I know itís a rebuild year but damn. Boals will probably have the ďcome to JesusĒ speech during half.
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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 18 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 1/17/2023 7:55:53 PM 
I want to make this perfectly clear when I say everyone on this team is awful tonight. However, since this has been a big discussion in recent weeks, I want to show you a good example of +/-with the Whiz.

He was on the court twice in the first half.

First Whiz appearance

15:50-12:56

Ohio was -11 on the court

Second Whiz appearance

7:36-5:53

Ohio was -1 on the court

First half with the Whiz out thereÖOhio was outscored by 12 points. Again, let me be clear when I say this entire team was awful tonight. However, this is what happens when the Whiz touches the floor. He provides nothing and itís 4 against 5. You are better off sticking a LaFerla twin out there over the Whiz. And if you donít know who the LeFerla twins areÖgoogle it. I just donít understand how the Whiz is on a division-one basketball roster.

Itís incredible how badly Boals whiffed with the Whiz and Baker. And the jury is still very much out on Hunter.

Update: Second half

Third Whiz appearance

9:22-6:35

Ohio was -3 on the court

Final+\- damage for the Whiz was -15 (9 total minutes). Plus, one moving screen and a trip over your own feet travel.

For the first time all year, Boals did not sub Whiz at the first break in the second half for Wilson. Not sure how much more Boals can take of this. Someone check with Mason McMurray and see if he needs a teammate.



Last Edited: 1/17/2023 9:34:48 PM by FearLeon


#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 18 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 1/17/2023 7:57:56 PM 
Cats5 wrote:
I know itís a rebuild year but damn. Boals will probably have the ďcome to JesusĒ speech during half.


The game is causing my mind to wander to old movies I guess:

https://youtu.be/AnoWzFPNtfA
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Pete Chouteau
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 18 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 1/17/2023 8:13:24 PM 
too bad mods disabled image downloads.

I have many thoughts about this game that can only be conveyed through inappropriate memes.
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FJC31
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 18 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 1/17/2023 8:13:53 PM 
Cats5 wrote:
I know itís a rebuild year but damn. Boals will probably have the ďcome to JesusĒ speech during half.


The sad thing is, it didnít have to be a rebuild year. The portal whiffs and recruiting misses of previous classes is showing. I still believe in Boals, but weíre in a bit of a hole. Thereís a huge talent gap between the top of the MAC and us right now.
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RufusCat09
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 18 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 1/17/2023 8:28:06 PM 
This wasn't supposed to be a rebuild year...it only became that way once we realized that Boals missed on Hunter/Baker/Wiz.

I had high hopes at the beginning on the year when I looked at this roster on paper and how the PT would be divided. Not so much the case now.
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OUcats82
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 18 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 1/17/2023 8:46:32 PM 
Another clunker against Toledo? Shocking!!!!

They always get their teeth kicked in.

Keep up the good work.


Ohio-The State University

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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 18 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 1/17/2023 9:15:04 PM 
If nothing else, the 4 freshmen got some PT. Guessing it's their most combined minutes of the year.
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BobcatSports
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 18 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 1/17/2023 9:45:27 PM 
You simply cannot put Wiz on the floor. Period. I know there is no other BIG on the roster go as big as you can elsewhere. Use Clayton-Alumede-Hadaway type combo knowing it leaves you vulnerable on defense but a least you are just not just throwing away points with Wiz. He is simply NOT capable at this level and gets worse instead of better.

James has progressed. AJ Brown is struggling. Maybe reverse roles let James start a few.
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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 18 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 1/17/2023 9:53:58 PM 
BobcatSports wrote:
You simply cannot put Wiz on the floor. Period. I know there is no other BIG on the roster go as big as you can elsewhere. Use Clayton-Alumede-Hadaway type combo knowing it leaves you vulnerable on defense but a least you are just not just throwing away points with Wiz. He is simply NOT capable at this level and gets worse instead of better.

James has progressed. AJ Brown is struggling. Maybe reverse roles let James start a few.


+1,000,000


#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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ohio9704
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 18 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 1/17/2023 9:58:56 PM 
Maybe start James and AJ Brown, then bring Miles brown off the bench. If we are going to punt on this season, let's get the most bang for our buck getting some experience.
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potstirred
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 18 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 1/17/2023 10:05:58 PM 
How hard is it to pass the ball inside? Wilson canít be stopped and we canít get the ball to him . I think I will pass out if we ever use a bounce pass to him. Clayton looks lost. Wiz should play only if we are up 20. AJ Brown is pressing. Baker/ Hunter should come off the bench. We need a true point guard that isnít going to be a turn over machine and can get guys good looks. I wouldnít mind a starting lineup of
Sheldon
AJ Brown
James
Roderick
Wilson
Bring Miles Brown, clayton , Baker/Hunter, off the bench. If Clayton doesnít want to be engaged get Hadaway to take his minutes.
Define their roles because right now it looks like Wilson is the only one that knows
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Urban Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 18 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 1/17/2023 10:17:12 PM 
The positive was that Toledo didn't put up a 100 on us.


URBAN BOBCAT

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Cellis033
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 18 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 1/17/2023 10:34:09 PM 
Think this might bre the year I'm going to work extra hard to get students to attend games - one thing is I'm going no matter what happens. We gotta string some wins together with the upcoming match ups, right?


Chase
OU Engineering Technology and Management '24
O-Zone President
Bringing the noise!

Muck Fiami
Kent read, Kent write, Can't be a state!
Bowling Green Normal School

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mid70sbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 18 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 1/17/2023 11:00:30 PM 
FearLeon wrote:
I want to make this perfectly clear when I say everyone on this team is awful tonight. However, since this has been a big discussion in recent weeks, I want to show you a good example of +/-with the Whiz.

He was on the court twice in the first half.

First Whiz appearance

15:50-12:56

Ohio was -11 on the court

Second Whiz appearance

7:36-5:53

Ohio was -1 on the court

First half with the Whiz out thereÖOhio was outscored by 12 points. Again, let me be clear when I say this entire team was awful tonight. However, this is what happens when the Whiz touches the floor. He provides nothing and itís 4 against 5. You are better off sticking a LaFerla twin out there over the Whiz. And if you donít know who the LeFerla twins areÖgoogle it. I just donít understand how the Whiz is on a division-one basketball roster.

Itís incredible how badly Boals whiffed with the Whiz and Baker. And the jury is still very much out on Hunter.

Update: Second half

Third Whiz appearance

9:22-6:35

Ohio was -3 on the court

Final+\- damage for the Whiz was -15 (9 total minutes). Plus, one moving screen and a trip over your own feet travel.

For the first time all year, Boals did not sub Whiz at the first break in the second half for Wilson. Not sure how much more Boals can take of this. Someone check with Mason McMurray and see if he needs a teammate.





LOL.

Wiz was guarding the guys who hit the 12 3's too I assume. Our defense is beyond pathetic. Look at the entire court before blaming your fall guy. Sure, he's lacking in some ways.

And for you, Saul was pathetic and Boals a savior. Better re-think that. See you after CMU game.
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GraffZ06
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 18 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 1/17/2023 11:05:20 PM 
Cellis033 wrote:
Think this might bre the year I'm going to work extra hard to get students to attend games - one thing is I'm going no matter what happens. We gotta string some wins together with the upcoming match ups, right?


People are freaking out now, but yes we will start stringing Ws together now as long as everybody keeps their chin up and keeps working. If we give up or start infighting it could go sideways quickly. I don't see that happening though.

We're projected to win 11 of final 13.
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 18 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 1/17/2023 11:50:19 PM 
Where does the projection data come from?
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 18 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 1/17/2023 11:59:01 PM 

GraffZ06 wrote:
 We're projected to win 11 of final 13. 

Boy, I hope that those projections are right.  Fortunately, I had a meeting tonight and missed watching this game.  I kept sneaking peaks at the score on my iPhone, and it looked bad and kept getting worse.  Was thet a 20 point deficit I saw at halftime?  

So far I only see two positives this season:

1.  We play a lot better at home than on the road,

2. Our men's team is doing better than our women's team.  I take a little male pride in that!  wink cool My wife calls it something else. 

 


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 18 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 1/18/2023 12:34:13 AM 
OU_Country wrote:
Where does the projection data come from?


HaÖyes. I would like to see that data as well!


#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 18 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 1/18/2023 12:40:42 AM 
mid70sbobcat wrote:
FearLeon wrote:
I want to make this perfectly clear when I say everyone on this team is awful tonight. However, since this has been a big discussion in recent weeks, I want to show you a good example of +/-with the Whiz.

He was on the court twice in the first half.

First Whiz appearance

15:50-12:56

Ohio was -11 on the court

Second Whiz appearance

7:36-5:53

Ohio was -1 on the court

First half with the Whiz out thereÖOhio was outscored by 12 points. Again, let me be clear when I say this entire team was awful tonight. However, this is what happens when the Whiz touches the floor. He provides nothing and itís 4 against 5. You are better off sticking a LaFerla twin out there over the Whiz. And if you donít know who the LeFerla twins areÖgoogle it. I just donít understand how the Whiz is on a division-one basketball roster.

Itís incredible how badly Boals whiffed with the Whiz and Baker. And the jury is still very much out on Hunter.

Update: Second half

Third Whiz appearance

9:22-6:35

Ohio was -3 on the court

Final+\- damage for the Whiz was -15 (9 total minutes). Plus, one moving screen and a trip over your own feet travel.

For the first time all year, Boals did not sub Whiz at the first break in the second half for Wilson. Not sure how much more Boals can take of this. Someone check with Mason McMurray and see if he needs a teammate.





LOL.

Wiz was guarding the guys who hit the 12 3's too I assume. Our defense is beyond pathetic. Look at the entire court before blaming your fall guy. Sure, he's lacking in some ways.

And for you, Saul was pathetic and Boals a savior. Better re-think that. See you after CMU game.


YesÖSaul was bad and I doubt anyone has been harder on Boals on this board than me. And the numbers donít lie. Teams go on runs when the Whiz is on the court. Heís not a D-one player and itís painful to watch. I donít blame Whiz. He should be playing on the D2 level. I blame this coaching staff who sacrificed a scholarship to take on a massive project and you canít take projects in the portal. Somebody on the staff should have put up a stop sign.

See ya after the CMU game.

Last Edited: 1/18/2023 12:48:50 AM by FearLeon


#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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GraffZ06
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 18 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 1/18/2023 12:43:19 AM 
https://www.barttorvik.com/team.php?team=Ohio&year=2023

Advanced statistics, when done right, are actually really good (nothing is perfect) at predicting future success.

Torvik's algorithms are one of many. KenPom does them as well. Jeff Sagarin and Massey are others.

FWIW Torvik predicted we'd start MAC play, *drum roll*, 1-4. Game by game expected values predicts we end 12-6, though he projects 10-8 saying he thinks we'll lose 2 we SHOULD win. I'm comfortable still splitting the difference and saying an 11-7 finish sounds right.

Can't panic now. The rest of the MAC is b-a-d.
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LuckySparrow
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 18 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 1/18/2023 7:10:17 AM 
I am not surprised we got rolled by Toledo on the road. They have their pieces together ready to make a run. We're still putting our pieces together...

Two games each against NIU/CMU/Fiami - that's at 3-5 wins I bet. We're certainly capable of beating Akron, BG, KSU, Buffalo, and EMU.

It's mid-January, there is still time to piece together something meaningful. Two straight home games vs CMU then WMU seems just what the doctor ordered.


What a day at the Convo.....Wow!

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FJC31
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 18 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 1/18/2023 7:14:54 AM 
GraffZ06 wrote:
https://www.barttorvik.com/team.php?team=Ohio&year=2023

Advanced statistics, when done right, are actually really good (nothing is perfect) at predicting future success.

Torvik's algorithms are one of many. KenPom does them as well. Jeff Sagarin and Massey are others.

FWIW Torvik predicted we'd start MAC play, *drum roll*, 1-4. Game by game expected values predicts we end 12-6, though he projects 10-8 saying he thinks we'll lose 2 we SHOULD win. I'm comfortable still splitting the difference and saying an 11-7 finish sounds right.

Can't panic now. The rest of the MAC is b-a-d.


Iíd categorize us a b-a-d until proven otherwise. Interesting projections, nonetheless.
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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 18 Thread: Toledo
   Posted: 1/18/2023 7:33:55 AM 
I get that there are many things to examine with this team and as a group we just sound irrationally focused on Wiz (or as FearLeon perhaps intentionally ironically spells it "whiz")...but when you watch the games it is just so consistently shriekingly bad. He has the worst softest most unreliable hands I have ever seen in D1, and he has some of the worst most reckless feet I have ever seen. If someone was able to go thru all the film and create a reel of lowlights for him, it would have a great chance to go viral simply for comic relief. Between plays you could cut to his stupid confused shocked face after each of his many many off ball fouls.

Every time he is on the court it is like a train wreck for me...all I can do is track him individually just waiting in anticipation for him to make me angry. Last night the top 2 were the falling down on his ass play and fumbling away the easiest rebound in history. And something about him (his look/vibe/body language) just make it all worse.

Anyway...This game could be a blessing in disguise. Even if we were right it would probably be a loss, Toledo is good and we just don't win there. They were 12 for 23 from 3...we aren't beating that even if we are rolling.

But the real real ugly start caused coach to really mix things up and it worked out. After the 20-8 start we were on the plus side while guys like James, Sheldon, etc. got some good minutes proving their worth. AND for the first time ever, coach elected to NOT put in Wiz during one of Wilson's rests. Maybe the rotation gets tweaked a bit towards the promising youth and away from the disappointing veterans.

AJ Brown's shot is way off right now. It will come around, but I think some of us (definitely myself included) maybe got a little too excited about him early on. James was tremendous last night, but he still has a lot to learn. Hadaway & Sheldon looked solid last night. I will make no specific judgment on Hunter/Baker/Roderick/Miles playing time but I will simply say I want to see more of the freshmen. If nothing else, it is less aggravating when they struggle.

If it is one thing I have learned in my 20 years on BobcatAttack, it is that we let the schedule dictate how much we overreact. We flip out and hate everything after a tough stretch of schedule, then we marvel about all the progress and positivity after a weaker schedule / home games. Now is not the time to evaluate the season...this portion went about as expected, maybe a touch worse. Now we wait and see how the other portions go.


Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

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