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Topic:  RE: Presidential search

Topic:  RE: Presidential search
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Bobcat Love
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 994

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  Message Not Read  RE: Presidential search
   Posted: 3/6/2023 10:17:04 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
I get the impulse to recruit away from Ivies and agree that neither Marshall, Ball State, not Louisville seem like schools to emulate.

But I think the fact that OUs President makes ~450k makes recruiting from the Ivies a tall task. For reference, Harvard's President makes ~$1.1m year. Princeton's President makes $945k. And I understand it, that's pre-bonus and incentive comp. Columbia's president had all in comp of 3.3m in a single year (2012). I suspect you have to go pretty far down the org chart at places like that to get to OU President level comp wise.

I'm not gonna pretend to know the ins and outs of the higher education labor market, but I do wonder how attractive this job is for a talented administrator who is progressing at an elite institution.


It's not hard. Someone (ANYONE) just has to do some work. Something not easily accomplished with our Trustees and Search Committee. Where did Van Wilder go to school? Was the Provost at his school unavailable for an interview? Marshall and Ball State. Jesus, we are the worst. It was like when we pulled Nellis out of that Saddam Hussein-like hole called Texas Tech - and boom - look what we got. That was a hot, steaming bag of you-know-what on the doorstep.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Member Since: 7/30/2010
Post Count: 3,502

Status: Online
  Message Not Read  RE: Presidential search
   Posted: 3/7/2023 9:00:08 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:


Given the circumstances under which Dr. Johnson resigned I'm not sure why anyone would find this job appealing," Professor Judson L. Jefferson told the board. "However, because academia is replete with careerists and opportunists, administrators will be lined up to interview for this job."



It doesn't take much imagination to understand what's appealing about the job though, right?

I mean, maybe there's an entire industry of people that can be written off as careerists and opportunists and the Ohio State job sucks but they'll take it anyhow.

Or, maybe it's the President of a renown research university with unlimited resources, a million dollar salary, and a huge opportunity for impact in a field they've dedicated their lives to and candidates are willing to bet that they can manage the board of trustees better than the outgoing president did.




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OUPride
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Member Since: 9/21/2010
Post Count: 574

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  Message Not Read  RE: Presidential search
   Posted: 3/7/2023 9:01:50 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
I get the impulse to recruit away from Ivies and agree that neither Marshall, Ball State, not Louisville seem like schools to emulate.

But I think the fact that OUs President makes ~450k makes recruiting from the Ivies a tall task. For reference, Harvard's President makes ~$1.1m year. Princeton's President makes $945k. And I understand it, that's pre-bonus and incentive comp. Columbia's president had all in comp of 3.3m in a single year (2012). I suspect you have to go pretty far down the org chart at places like that to get to OU President level comp wise.

I'm not gonna pretend to know the ins and outs of the higher education labor market, but I do wonder how attractive this job is for a talented administrator who is progressing at an elite institution.
.

In yesterday's Dispatch, there was an article about the to$u presidential search. If found this paragraph to be most interesting:

Given the circumstances under which Dr. Johnson resigned I'm not sure why anyone would find this job appealing," Professor Judson L. Jefferson told the board. "However, because academia is replete with careerists and opportunists, administrators will be lined up to interview for this job."



Live by the Wexner; die by the Wexner. I think that job will now become toxic for top tier candidates until Wexner passes. The generalities of the place (AAU, 1B+ in research, 7B endowment} will probably get somebody with a decent background, but they won't pull anyone like their last two. People like that will wait for a similar opportunity without a Wexner.
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OhioCatFan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 14,176

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Presidential search
   Posted: 3/7/2023 10:22:15 AM 
SBH wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Well, we've had a mixed bag from the Harvard and the Ivy League IMHO:

John C. Baker (1945–1961), excellent
Vernon R. Alden (1962–1969), mediocre at best

And, one other president with a prestige school and Ivy League background -- Herman Gerlach James (1935-43) -- was also probably one of our better presidents. James held a law degree from the University of Chicago and a Ph.D. from Columbia.

It was James who reorganized the university into something resembling its modern form. When he assumed the presidency there were only two colleges -- Liberal Arts and Education. Under Liberal Arts all sorts of disciplines were covered from engineering to economics to languages, fine arts and philosophy. From this mess he created: the College of Arts and Sciences, the College of Applied Sciences (now College of Engineering), the College of Commerce (now College of Business), and the College of Fine Arts. He then took the departments of English, history, mathematics and music as well as other duplicate areas out of the College of Education and put them into one of the new academic colleges.

But, Alston Ellis (1901-1921), another of our finest presidents, was a graduate of a place we don't normally look to for leadership. Ellis secured legislative funding for the university and defeated a proposal to fund only O$U for regular college studies and then only the normal schools at Ohio and Miami. This was called the Lybarger Bill, introduced by a legislator from Coshocton. Where did Ellis receive his undergraduate and part of his graduate education? Of all places, it was That School in Oxford, and I'm not talking England here. He also had graduate and law degrees from O$U and Wooster.

The point of this history lesson? Good university leadership can come from all sorts of places -- from the Ivy league to the backwaters of Butler County. Let's emphasize the person and their leadership qualities and not the school name on their diplomas.

[Note: James was accused by some faculty of being a Nazi sympathizer, though there's little actual evidence of this, and he was the president who started the ROTC program on campus, which was widely criticized at the time.]


I suspect your lack of esteem for Vernon Alden is, again, due to your loyalty to Marshall, which in the 1960s operated an athletic program that was a criminal enterprise.


Though I dispute your characterization of the Marshall program, I will confess that my affiliation with Marshall is part of the issue, but there is much more. OUPride pointed out some other important points that go into my calculus in assessing Vern the Fern, a we used to call him. Another factor is my father's personal dealings with him that showed he was a man without principle. My father was on the Faculty Advisory Council at that time, and served a term as president. The FAC was the forerunner of the Faculty Senate.

Last Edited: 3/7/2023 10:26:21 AM by OhioCatFan

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Ohio69
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 3,024

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Presidential search
   Posted: 3/7/2023 10:46:58 AM 
Bobcat Love wrote:
It's not hard. Someone (ANYONE) just has to do some work...


So normally there's a search firm involved and 100% of their business is to identify potential candidates for these types of positions and sell them on the opportunity. Is this what you are unhappy about?

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

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Mike Johnson
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Member Since: 11/11/2004
Location: North Canton, OH
Post Count: 1,721

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Presidential search
   Posted: 3/7/2023 11:41:51 AM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
SBH wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Well, we've had a mixed bag from the Harvard and the Ivy League IMHO:

John C. Baker (1945–1961), excellent
Vernon R. Alden (1962–1969), mediocre at best

And, one other president with a prestige school and Ivy League background -- Herman Gerlach James (1935-43) -- was also probably one of our better presidents. James held a law degree from the University of Chicago and a Ph.D. from Columbia.

It was James who reorganized the university into something resembling its modern form. When he assumed the presidency there were only two colleges -- Liberal Arts and Education. Under Liberal Arts all sorts of disciplines were covered from engineering to economics to languages, fine arts and philosophy. From this mess he created: the College of Arts and Sciences, the College of Applied Sciences (now College of Engineering), the College of Commerce (now College of Business), and the College of Fine Arts. He then took the departments of English, history, mathematics and music as well as other duplicate areas out of the College of Education and put them into one of the new academic colleges.

But, Alston Ellis (1901-1921), another of our finest presidents, was a graduate of a place we don't normally look to for leadership. Ellis secured legislative funding for the university and defeated a proposal to fund only O$U for regular college studies and then only the normal schools at Ohio and Miami. This was called the Lybarger Bill, introduced by a legislator from Coshocton. Where did Ellis receive his undergraduate and part of his graduate education? Of all places, it was That School in Oxford, and I'm not talking England here. He also had graduate and law degrees from O$U and Wooster.

The point of this history lesson? Good university leadership can come from all sorts of places -- from the Ivy league to the backwaters of Butler County. Let's emphasize the person and their leadership qualities and not the school name on their diplomas.

[Note: James was accused by some faculty of being a Nazi sympathizer, though there's little actual evidence of this, and he was the president who started the ROTC program on campus, which was widely criticized at the time.]


I suspect your lack of esteem for Vernon Alden is, again, due to your loyalty to Marshall, which in the 1960s operated an athletic program that was a criminal enterprise.


Though I dispute your characterization of the Marshall program, I will confess that my affiliation with Marshall is part of the issue, but there is much more. OUPride pointed out some other important points that go into my calculus in assessing Vern the Fern, a we used to call him. Another factor is my father's personal dealings with him that showed he was a man without principle. My father was on the Faculty Advisory Council at that time, and served a term as president. The FAC was the forerunner of the Faculty Senate.


A different perspective on Vern. Thanks to my books, a warm friendship took root. It included many exchanges of correspondence, gift-giving, and conversations in Athens. I found Vern thoughtful, easy to like and respect.

http://www.facebook.com/mikejohnson.author

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Kinggeorge4
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Member Since: 12/22/2004
Location: Guysville, OH
Post Count: 999

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Presidential search
   Posted: 3/7/2023 1:19:09 PM 
Mike Johnson wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
SBH wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Well, we've had a mixed bag from the Harvard and the Ivy League IMHO:

John C. Baker (1945–1961), excellent
Vernon R. Alden (1962–1969), mediocre at best

And, one other president with a prestige school and Ivy League background -- Herman Gerlach James (1935-43) -- was also probably one of our better presidents. James held a law degree from the University of Chicago and a Ph.D. from Columbia.

It was James who reorganized the university into something resembling its modern form. When he assumed the presidency there were only two colleges -- Liberal Arts and Education. Under Liberal Arts all sorts of disciplines were covered from engineering to economics to languages, fine arts and philosophy. From this mess he created: the College of Arts and Sciences, the College of Applied Sciences (now College of Engineering), the College of Commerce (now College of Business), and the College of Fine Arts. He then took the departments of English, history, mathematics and music as well as other duplicate areas out of the College of Education and put them into one of the new academic colleges.

But, Alston Ellis (1901-1921), another of our finest presidents, was a graduate of a place we don't normally look to for leadership. Ellis secured legislative funding for the university and defeated a proposal to fund only O$U for regular college studies and then only the normal schools at Ohio and Miami. This was called the Lybarger Bill, introduced by a legislator from Coshocton. Where did Ellis receive his undergraduate and part of his graduate education? Of all places, it was That School in Oxford, and I'm not talking England here. He also had graduate and law degrees from O$U and Wooster.

The point of this history lesson? Good university leadership can come from all sorts of places -- from the Ivy league to the backwaters of Butler County. Let's emphasize the person and their leadership qualities and not the school name on their diplomas.

[Note: James was accused by some faculty of being a Nazi sympathizer, though there's little actual evidence of this, and he was the president who started the ROTC program on campus, which was widely criticized at the time.]


I suspect your lack of esteem for Vernon Alden is, again, due to your loyalty to Marshall, which in the 1960s operated an athletic program that was a criminal enterprise.


Though I dispute your characterization of the Marshall program, I will confess that my affiliation with Marshall is part of the issue, but there is much more. OUPride pointed out some other important points that go into my calculus in assessing Vern the Fern, a we used to call him. Another factor is my father's personal dealings with him that showed he was a man without principle. My father was on the Faculty Advisory Council at that time, and served a term as president. The FAC was the forerunner of the Faculty Senate.


A different perspective on Vern. Thanks to my books, a warm friendship took root. It included many exchanges of correspondence, gift-giving, and conversations in Athens. I found Vern thoughtful, easy to like and respect.


I have always found Vernon Alden a likeable guy and very thoughtful. His many trips back to the library named after him were amazing. He always wanted lunch with some employees and not the administration. He would even remember each and everyone of us on visits back (sometimes several years apart) He always seemed very genuine, interested and caring.

I do know he does not care for our school to be referred to as OU. It was OHIO or Ohio University. Loved his shouts of you work at Oklahoma?

GO BOBCATS
GEORGE

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giacomo
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Member Since: 11/20/2007
Post Count: 2,688

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  Message Not Read  RE: Presidential search
   Posted: 3/7/2023 4:34:27 PM 
Campus Flow wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Campus Flow wrote:
Susana seems a lot like a McDavis clone with a higher education leadership clone. Younger (55?) and the university would be getting her in her prime. From the west coast might offer new perspective.

Avi is late 50's has diverse experience in business education and likely have thoughts on how to market the school better. He hasn't been a provost particularly long though.

Lori is in her 60's and most part a career provost though briefly interim provost at Louisville. Backround reminds me of Nellis going for the cashout before retirement. Louisville passed over her once before.

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/education/2022... /


Not what I asked. Did anyone actually attend the first forum and get a feel for the candidate?



Disagree on the Louisville gal. She would be my second choice. Guy from Marshall still first choice. Ball State lady a distant third, IMHO. I think she'd be kind of clone of our AD and more into platitudes than actual problem solving and advancing the institution. She's the one, I think, who would be more of the Nellis type hire -- says the right things but is very shallow and doesn't really look into issues in depth.


I can kind of see a clone of our AD too in Susana. But she has only worked at college towns her whole career. Job would be a challenge from her career level to date but that might mean she'll work harder to make it work. Was at two institutions with nice football stadiums (Oregon St, Ball St) so maybe she'll be ticked off at the state of Peden. Helps to project a diverse image in a growing demographic.

Louisville had some messy presidential hires and I think Lori to an extent is tied to it. At her age it might be a 5 year and out thing. A younger hire in their 50's might put in a full decade like Rod and Glidden both did.


The state of their prior football stadium is a crucial qualification for president.
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MonroeClassmate
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Member Since: 8/31/2010
Post Count: 2,052

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Presidential search
   Posted: 3/7/2023 5:45:48 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
Bobcat Love wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:

Vernon R. Alden (1962–1969), mediocre at best


I had little respect for you before this post. Now I have ZERO. This is at least 40% more stupid and ridiculous than your MAC Shuttle post.

And yes, I think we should aim higher than Marshall for our highest Administrators.

Idiotic.


100%


I was not present during those years and I don't have a dog in the fight.

But from an architectural perspective the ugly buildings of Glidden Hall (Music)even the library, the ENTIRE crap of New South, I ask, who was at the helm when these were approved? And what about the Convo? Wasn't the rumor it would have been paid for by an Alum had there been zero dorm space involved true or false?

What did Alden do at the helm that keeps him off the middling list when compared to others? Perhaps Alden faced great turmoil in society as Ping faced. Things like low enrollment, high inflation driving the cost of education much higher.

Educate me.

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OUPride
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  Message Not Read  RE: Presidential search
   Posted: 3/7/2023 8:38:08 PM 
MonroeClassmate wrote:



What did Alden do at the helm that keeps him off the middling list when compared to others? Perhaps Alden faced great turmoil in society as Ping faced. Things like low enrollment, high inflation driving the cost of education much higher.

Educate me.



Crazy thing is that Alden faced none of those things. Enrollment: he benefitted immensely from the baby boom bubble and the Vietnam deferment bubble. Inflation: didn't hit until the first oil shock four years after he was gone. Higher Ed Costs: ridiculously low during the sixties.

Fact is, he blew it. He got suckered into a fake partnership by Shriver and Millett and was led to believe that if he helped cut OSU off at the knees and force them into open admissions, that Ohio would benefit. He went along like a loyal stooge never thinking for a moment that his "partners" would screw him over. And guess what they did! EPIC FAILURE. And I'm still waiting for someone to tell me all the great things he did to compensate for that monumental failure that forced Ohio to compete with one arm tied behind its back for the next three decades.
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SBH
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 3,951

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  Message Not Read  RE: Presidential search
   Posted: 3/8/2023 9:03:20 AM 
OUPride wrote:
MonroeClassmate wrote:



What did Alden do at the helm that keeps him off the middling list when compared to others? Perhaps Alden faced great turmoil in society as Ping faced. Things like low enrollment, high inflation driving the cost of education much higher.

Educate me.



Crazy thing is that Alden faced none of those things. Enrollment: he benefitted immensely from the baby boom bubble and the Vietnam deferment bubble. Inflation: didn't hit until the first oil shock four years after he was gone. Higher Ed Costs: ridiculously low during the sixties.

Fact is, he blew it. He got suckered into a fake partnership by Shriver and Millett and was led to believe that if he helped cut OSU off at the knees and force them into open admissions, that Ohio would benefit. He went along like a loyal stooge never thinking for a moment that his "partners" would screw him over. And guess what they did! EPIC FAILURE. And I'm still waiting for someone to tell me all the great things he did to compensate for that monumental failure that forced Ohio to compete with one arm tied behind its back for the next three decades.


Is there any documentation of this story? Sounds like an urban myth.
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Mike Johnson
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Member Since: 11/11/2004
Location: North Canton, OH
Post Count: 1,721

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Presidential search
   Posted: 3/8/2023 1:48:44 PM 
MonroeClassmate wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Bobcat Love wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:

Vernon R. Alden (1962–1969), mediocre at best


I had little respect for you before this post. Now I have ZERO. This is at least 40% more stupid and ridiculous than your MAC Shuttle post.

And yes, I think we should aim higher than Marshall for our highest Administrators.

Idiotic.


100%


I was not present during those years and I don't have a dog in the fight.

But from an architectural perspective the ugly buildings of Glidden Hall (Music)even the library, the ENTIRE crap of New South, I ask, who was at the helm when these were approved? And what about the Convo? Wasn't the rumor it would have been paid for by an Alum had there been zero dorm space involved true or false?

What did Alden do at the helm that keeps him off the middling list when compared to others? Perhaps Alden faced great turmoil in society as Ping faced. Things like low enrollment, high inflation driving the cost of education much higher.

Educate me.



Although the impact of certain happenings on a brand can be difficult to measure with precision, I do believe that certain happenings during the Alden years strengthened Ohio's brand. The following examples come readily to mind: LIFE magazine's huge spread - 10 or more pages - on Vern and Marion and Ohio. President Johnson's Great Society Speech on Richland Avenue - seen live by thousands including the national press corps. Ohio's hosting Buckeye Boys State - and the summer when I was there also hosting a program for high school majorettes. Vern's "ambassadorship" brought high-value recognition to Ohio.

I knew almost nothing about Ohio before attending Boys State with three of my high school classmates. Three of us wound up earning our bachelor's at Ohio.

http://www.facebook.com/mikejohnson.author

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OhioCatFan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 14,176

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  Message Not Read  RE: Presidential search
   Posted: 3/8/2023 3:42:00 PM 
Mike Johnson wrote:
MonroeClassmate wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Bobcat Love wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:

Vernon R. Alden (1962–1969), mediocre at best


I had little respect for you before this post. Now I have ZERO. This is at least 40% more stupid and ridiculous than your MAC Shuttle post.

And yes, I think we should aim higher than Marshall for our highest Administrators.

Idiotic.


100%


I was not present during those years and I don't have a dog in the fight.

But from an architectural perspective the ugly buildings of Glidden Hall (Music)even the library, the ENTIRE crap of New South, I ask, who was at the helm when these were approved? And what about the Convo? Wasn't the rumor it would have been paid for by an Alum had there been zero dorm space involved true or false?

What did Alden do at the helm that keeps him off the middling list when compared to others? Perhaps Alden faced great turmoil in society as Ping faced. Things like low enrollment, high inflation driving the cost of education much higher.

Educate me.



Although the impact of certain happenings on a brand can be difficult to measure with precision, I do believe that certain happenings during the Alden years strengthened Ohio's brand. The following examples come readily to mind: LIFE magazine's huge spread - 10 or more pages - on Vern and Marion and Ohio. President Johnson's Great Society Speech on Richland Avenue - seen live by thousands including the national press corps. Ohio's hosting Buckeye Boys State - and the summer when I was there also hosting a program for high school majorettes. Vern's "ambassadorship" brought high-value recognition to Ohio.

I knew almost nothing about Ohio before attending Boys State with three of my high school classmates. Three of us wound up earning our bachelor's at Ohio.


Mike, I understand your points, and also appreciate your earlier post about your personal interactions with Alden. My own assessment of Alden is that on balance OHIO would have done better at that time with different leadership. I might add that my wife points out that if Alden hadn't been president I would not have met her because she would most likely have gone to another state school. It's a long story, that only bobcatsquared would be interested in, but my wife's father published a weekly newsletter about state government. Alden wanted to curry his favor and when my wife and her parents came down for their campus visit they dined with the Aldens. My wife said that so impressed her that she decided on OHIO. So, Alden does have that going for him! ;-)

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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SBH
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 3,951

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  Message Not Read  RE: Presidential search
   Posted: 3/9/2023 10:17:05 AM 
SBH wrote:
OUPride wrote:
MonroeClassmate wrote:



What did Alden do at the helm that keeps him off the middling list when compared to others? Perhaps Alden faced great turmoil in society as Ping faced. Things like low enrollment, high inflation driving the cost of education much higher.

Educate me.



Crazy thing is that Alden faced none of those things. Enrollment: he benefitted immensely from the baby boom bubble and the Vietnam deferment bubble. Inflation: didn't hit until the first oil shock four years after he was gone. Higher Ed Costs: ridiculously low during the sixties.

Fact is, he blew it. He got suckered into a fake partnership by Shriver and Millett and was led to believe that if he helped cut OSU off at the knees and force them into open admissions, that Ohio would benefit. He went along like a loyal stooge never thinking for a moment that his "partners" would screw him over. And guess what they did! EPIC FAILURE. And I'm still waiting for someone to tell me all the great things he did to compensate for that monumental failure that forced Ohio to compete with one arm tied behind its back for the next three decades.


Is there any documentation of this story? Sounds like an urban myth.




Still waiting.
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OUPride
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Member Since: 9/21/2010
Post Count: 574

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  Message Not Read  RE: Presidential search
   Posted: 3/10/2023 8:51:42 AM 
SBH wrote:
SBH wrote:
OUPride wrote:
MonroeClassmate wrote:



What did Alden do at the helm that keeps him off the middling list when compared to others? Perhaps Alden faced great turmoil in society as Ping faced. Things like low enrollment, high inflation driving the cost of education much higher.

Educate me.



Crazy thing is that Alden faced none of those things. Enrollment: he benefitted immensely from the baby boom bubble and the Vietnam deferment bubble. Inflation: didn't hit until the first oil shock four years after he was gone. Higher Ed Costs: ridiculously low during the sixties.

Fact is, he blew it. He got suckered into a fake partnership by Shriver and Millett and was led to believe that if he helped cut OSU off at the knees and force them into open admissions, that Ohio would benefit. He went along like a loyal stooge never thinking for a moment that his "partners" would screw him over. And guess what they did! EPIC FAILURE. And I'm still waiting for someone to tell me all the great things he did to compensate for that monumental failure that forced Ohio to compete with one arm tied behind its back for the next three decades.


Is there any documentation of this story? Sounds like an urban myth.




Still waiting.


It's not exactly the stuff that gets written in official university histories and certainly not in self-serving autobiographies. All I can say is that faculty and adminstrators that I've talked to who were present during his tenure have said that he was entirely confident to the point of arrogance that Ohio would move to selective admissions with Miami and that "would be the end of OSU's time as the state flagship." What is indisputable is that when he left office Miami had selective admissions, and Ohio was as open admission as Bowling Green or Kent. Whether he got played by Miami or simply couldn't get the job done, either way he failed.
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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Presidential search
   Posted: 3/10/2023 9:15:09 AM 
So this story has morphed from an obvious "getting played by nefarious forces at Miami" to a "whatever it was, he didn't get it done." Faculty rumors are right up there with fourth-graders dissing one another on the playground. As I suspected, urban myth.





Last Edited: 3/10/2023 9:15:33 AM by SBH
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OUPride
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  Message Not Read  RE: Presidential search
   Posted: 3/10/2023 9:23:56 AM 
SBH wrote:
So this story has morphed from an obvious "getting played by nefarious forces at Miami" to a "whatever it was, he didn't get it done." Faculty rumors are right up there with fourth-graders dissing one another on the playground. As I suspected, urban myth.







You suspected wrong. He--alongside Shriver and Millett--lobbied for OSU to be forced into open admissions. Afterwards, Miami slid into selective admissions through a loophole of not being forced to build enough dorm space for the baby boom wave. Ohio was not allowed to do that and was forced by the Governor, the Regents Chair (Millett) and the legislature to build those dorms, so they could take every Ohio high school graduate who applied. All that was common knowledge at the time.

Why can't you recognize the man's obvious failure? Were you close to him personally or can you just not accept that a prominent President of Ohio really screwed things up that badly? Either he got played by Miami, was grotesquely incompetent at navigating the state politics of his day or both. One, however, can't look at the ultimate result and exonerate him in any way.

In any event, I'm still waiting for any of his apologists to tell me what great accomplishments he had to balance out the fact that Ohio was left with no different admission standards than Bowling Green or Kent when he was done. About the only defense is that nobody could have overcome both Rhodes' anti-intellectualism and populism AND the double dealing of a Regents Chair who was hellbent on elevating Miami at all costs. Could someone else have overcome that? We'll never know; we just know that Alden didn't.

Last Edited: 3/10/2023 9:31:21 AM by OUPride
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OhioCatFan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Presidential search
   Posted: 3/10/2023 10:40:35 AM 
OUPride wrote:
. . . All I can say is that faculty and administrators that I've talked to who were present during his tenure have said that he was entirely confident to the point of arrogance that Ohio would move to selective admissions with Miami and that "would be the end of OSU's time as the state flagship." . . .


Arrogance was a word my father often used to describe his discussions with Alden.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Bobcat Love
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  Message Not Read  RE: Presidential search
   Posted: 3/10/2023 11:04:54 AM 
I still can't believe we are trying to pull someone from Marshall to be our President. One of the worst academic institutions in the history of higher education in the United States of America.

I'm sad and disgusted.

Also, Alden was the best President the university has ever had. I would say McDavis was 2nd. Beyond that, it's not even close. The ones crapping on Alden's reputation probably thought Ping and Glidden were the top of the heap.

Marshall. Man. Unreal. So sad.
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TWT
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
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  Message Not Read  RE: Presidential search
   Posted: 3/12/2023 9:28:26 AM 
https://www.thepostathens.com/article/2023/03/ohio-univer...

Its now down to only the Marshall and Louisville provosts for the presidential spot.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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TWT
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Location: Alexandria, VA
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  Message Not Read  RE: Presidential search
   Posted: 3/12/2023 9:38:53 AM 
Quote:
Dean Matthew Shaftel gave updates about the growth of the College of Fine Arts to the Board on Thursday. The college has an 89% first-to-second-year retention rate, the average GPA of incoming first-year students is a 3.94 and a 70% job placement in field of study after graduation.

Shaftel said the college has undergone 35% overall growth in all of its majors, 55% growth in out-of-state students and 36% growth in underrepresented students, Shaftel said. The college has also created nine new undergraduate degrees, which include musical theater, interior architecture, film, contemporary music and digital art.

https://www.thepostathens.com/article/2023/01/board-of-tr...


Its great to have strong niche colleges but what the university really needs its Arts and Sciences to post a higher average GPA. When you have that it means students are using the university for name only. The solution might be to set aside money to bring in distinquished hires that can grow the prestige of the college. Invest in 5 or 10 key hires in Arts & Sciences, HCOM, Engineering to advance research and reputation.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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rpbobcat
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Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
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  Message Not Read  RE: Presidential search
   Posted: 3/12/2023 10:57:01 AM 
Campus Flow wrote:
https://www.thepostathens.com/article/2023/03/ohio-univer...

Its now down to only the Marshall and Louisville provosts for the presidential spot.


The Louisville Provost is/was their interim president.

According to the article that "campus flow" posted,she didn't "make the cut" as
one of the finalists for president.

To me,that says something .

It should narrow down O.U.'s choices to the gentleman from Marshall or start over.



Last Edited: 3/12/2023 11:01:31 AM by rpbobcat
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TWT
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Location: Alexandria, VA
Post Count: 5,017

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  Message Not Read  RE: Presidential search
   Posted: 3/12/2023 1:54:32 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Campus Flow wrote:
https://www.thepostathens.com/article/2023/03/ohio-univer...

Its now down to only the Marshall and Louisville provosts for the presidential spot.


The Louisville Provost is/was their interim president.

According to the article that "campus flow" posted,she didn't "make the cut" as
one of the finalists for president.

To me,that says something .

It should narrow down O.U.'s choices to the gentleman from Marshall or start over.


Avi is a practioner with the business college backround and Lori is a long time health and human services dean. Found squotes from the Messenger as what they had to say about athletics. Lori sounds more pro athletics out of the two.

Quote:
At to athletics, Mukherjee said he is a believer in integrating athletics and academic initiatives.

"Athletics is a recruitment tool for students. It is a great marketing tool to get the word out. And it brings the community together. It brings alumni online together. It brings donors together," he said. "... As it is always said in higher education, the two things that everybody sees first as the most visible parts of the university are, perhaps athletics and, and fine arts, our performing arts. And then of course, academic quality is equally important."

https://www.athensmessenger.com/news/avi-mukherjee-makes-...



Quote:
Athletics is one of the gateways of a campus.

"You have two kinds of students that want to come to campus — somebody that wants to be on the team and somebody who wants to root for a team," Stewart Gonzalez said.

She noted that besides soccer, Louisville doesn't have any professional teams, so university athletics make a big difference in the community's spirit.

Stewart Gonzalez said she tries to show up to as many sporting events as possible so students know she's there for them. She also has invited donors to events.

"We were trying to grow black businesses that we're doing business with. They didn't always know how to be vendors," she said. "So I brought whole group of black business people into the football box, so they can watch the game. Then you talk to them about how the vendors work, so athletics is like this platform for communication, for community building and spirit building."

https://www.athensmessenger.com/news/lori-stewart-gonzale...


In this example Lori actually tried an initiative to support the football program by involving community business.

Last Edited: 3/12/2023 6:07:19 PM by TWT

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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rpbobcat
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Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
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  Message Not Read  RE: Presidential search
   Posted: 3/12/2023 5:28:44 PM 
Campus Flow wrote:


Athletics is one of the gateways of a campus.

"We were trying to grow black businesses that we're doing business with. They didn't always know how to be vendors," she said. "So I brought whole group of black business people into the football box, so they can watch the game. Then you talk to them about how the vendors work, so athletics is like this platform for communication, for community building and spirit building."

In this example Lori actually tried an initiative to support the football program by involving community business.


Wasn't "Athletics . . . " one of Nellis' "catch phrases ?

As someone posted,she seems a lot like him.
Put in a couple of years,then retire.

Yes,the woman invited people to a football game.

But her comments were related to business opportunities for minorities, rather then athletics.

No reference to improving the quality of facilities,teams or coaches.

As I posted,the fact that she didn't even make the list of finalists for permanent president at the school where she's interim president is "telling".













Last Edited: 3/12/2023 5:30:00 PM by rpbobcat
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TWT
General User



Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
Post Count: 5,017

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Presidential search
   Posted: 3/12/2023 6:19:05 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Campus Flow wrote:


Athletics is one of the gateways of a campus.

"We were trying to grow black businesses that we're doing business with. They didn't always know how to be vendors," she said. "So I brought whole group of black business people into the football box, so they can watch the game. Then you talk to them about how the vendors work, so athletics is like this platform for communication, for community building and spirit building."

In this example Lori actually tried an initiative to support the football program by involving community business.


Wasn't "Athletics . . . " one of Nellis' "catch phrases ?

As someone posted,she seems a lot like him.
Put in a couple of years,then retire.

Yes,the woman invited people to a football game.

But her comments were related to business opportunities for minorities, rather then athletics.

No reference to improving the quality of facilities,teams or coaches.

As I posted,the fact that she didn't even make the list of finalists for permanent president at the school where she's interim president is "telling".


Its hard to say as Louisville has been a "s***show" revolving door of presidents. If I had to put money on it she'll get the job with all the dean/provost level experience.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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