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All we have heard about it at this point is the defendant and his lawyer talking about how he did nothing wrong. Woopity do. That is a prototypical situation to say "there are 2 sides to every story." That's all. Forgive me for having doubts that a former Deadspin reporter hacked Fox News to break that all important story about Kanye West being a crazy person. And forgive me for considering that a raging liberal that loathes Fox News might have done a little more here than he is leading on. This may come as a surprise to you, but people charged with crimes often say they didn't do it when they did, or as I suggested, at least did something a little nefarious. What's the distinction you're drawing between "committing a crime" and "something a little nefarious" -- what's something "a little nefarious" that would warrant an FBI raid? Back to Top Andrew Ruck General User Member Since: 12/22/2004 Location: Columbus, OH Post Count: 5,181 Status: Offline     RE: Tim Burke's home office raided by the FBI    Posted: 8/24/2023 12:46:52 PM  I did not attempt to draw any such distinction nor should I have to based on my comments. I never said "yay FBI go get them I am sure it is warranted!" Andrew Ruck B.B.A. 2003 Back to Top Andrew Ruck General User Member Since: 12/22/2004 Location: Columbus, OH Post Count: 5,181 Status: Offline     RE: Tim Burke's home office raided by the FBI    Posted: 8/24/2023 1:38:16 PM  bobcatsquared wrote: Andrew Ruck wrote: This may come as a surprise to you, but people charged with crimes often say they didn't do it when they did, or as I suggested, at least did something a little nefarious. Hmmm, can't put my finger on it, but this reminds me of someone in the news a lot the past few years. This person I'm thinking of is surrendering to authorities down in Georgia as I type this. Not a Trump guy, but yes 1 example of many. But if we go with BLSS' apparent way of thinking on this, we should just take Trump's defense as gospel and not examine any information from the prosecution. Andrew Ruck B.B.A. 2003 Back to Top JSF General User Member Since: 1/29/2005 Location: Houston, TX Post Count: 6,546 Status: Offline     RE: Tim Burke's home office raided by the FBI    Posted: 8/24/2023 4:33:14 PM  Legally speaking, it was warranted... "Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season. My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8 Back to Top shabamon General User Member Since: 11/17/2006 Location: Cincinnati Post Count: 6,791 Status: Offline     RE: Tim Burke's home office raided by the FBI    Posted: 4/15/2025 3:58:09 PM  Update - looks like this will go to trial. https://www.tampabay.com/news/hillsborough/2025/04/14/tam... / Back to Top BillyTheCat General User Member Since: 10/6/2012 Post Count: 10,332 Status: Offline     RE: Tim Burke's home office raided by the FBI    Posted: 4/15/2025 10:13:59 PM  shabamon wrote: Update - looks like this will go to trial. https://www.tampabay.com/news/hillsborough/2025/04/14/tam... / Tough time to be in federal court as a journalist in this environment. Tim has always done great work and provided great insight! Here is to the truth setting him free. Back to Top OhioCatFan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 14,670 Status: Offline     RE: Tim Burke's home office raided by the FBI    Posted: 4/15/2025 11:40:40 PM  I could not read the Tampa Tribune article because it was behind a paywall. Here's another article about the case: https://tinyurl.com/mpux8zzz The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top Andrew Ruck General User Member Since: 12/22/2004 Location: Columbus, OH Post Count: 5,181 Status: Offline     RE: Tim Burke's home office raided by the FBI    Posted: 4/18/2025 3:13:23 PM  Dismissal requests denied and co-conspirator pleads guilty. Not looking good for Tim. Almost seems like we should've waited for more information instead of sprint to conclusions using only the defendant as our source of information. I think we've got a better chance of beating OSU in the fall than Tim does at winning this trial. Andrew Ruck B.B.A. 2003 Back to Top Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame General User Member Since: 7/30/2010 Post Count: 4,006 Status: Offline     RE: Tim Burke's home office raided by the FBI    Posted: 4/18/2025 4:34:04 PM  Kind of an interesting moment for this case. The Trump admin is suing CBS accusing them of deceitfully editing an interview with Kamala Harris while Fox News is trying to put a journalist in prison for releasing footage of an unhinged Kanye West interview where Fox News edited out anti-semitic rants and then ran the segment with the following lead in: “Is West crazy?” Carlson asked at the top of the first interview. “You can judge for yourself as you watch what we are about to show you. He has his own ideas… But crazy? That was not our conclusion.” “Not crazy,” Carlson concluded after the interview. “Worth listening to, even if you disagree with him.” We'll see if Burke broke the law. But I tend to think more information is better, and that it's a pretty slippery slope if Burke is convicted. Fox's behavior here was far more eregious than CBSs and I think journalists creating accountability is a good thing. But that's just me. Back to Top Andrew Ruck General User Member Since: 12/22/2004 Location: Columbus, OH Post Count: 5,181 Status: Offline     RE: Tim Burke's home office raided by the FBI    Posted: 4/21/2025 12:59:26 PM  This case is about using nefarious methods to obtain footage/information. Not sure how your point about edits relates. But every news outlet edits the crap out of all their interviews and messaging to fit their narrative and objective - There is no question about that. Andrew Ruck B.B.A. 2003 Back to Top Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame General User Member Since: 7/30/2010 Post Count: 4,006 Status: Offline     RE: Tim Burke's home office raided by the FBI    Posted: 4/21/2025 3:10:50 PM  Andrew Ruck wrote: This case is about using nefarious methods to obtain footage/information. Not sure how your point about edits relates. But every news outlet edits the crap out of all their interviews and messaging to fit their narrative and objective - There is no question about that. Sorry, I mixed up my Trump campaign threats against CBS. I had thought that the Kamala transcript was leaked by a CBS employee, but I was mixing it up with the story that came out on conservative media (then disappeared) about a whistleblower who was going to prove that CBS gave Kamala debate answers. But either way, I'm unconvinced that the government deciding that a journalist accessing information on a server with others' credentials should be illegal in a good thing. And if that's where this case ends up, there are some pretty scary implications for modern journalism. Generally, journalists have been provided protections when publishing illegally accessed materials -- provided they didn't play a direct role in acquiring those materials and the materials contain public concern. That's based on Bartnicki v. Vopper, where a citizen illegally recorded a union negotiation call and dropped the recording in a journalist's mailbox. In Burke's case, according to the co-defendent who pleaded guilty, Burke was sent these credentials by the dude who plead guilty. I think it's a pretty interesting question as to how you define a journalist's role, but it seems pretty arbitrary to me that the difference between legal and illegal in this case would be based on who actually took the action to login & download what they found. When the Pentagon Papers were leaked plenty of different journalists ended up with photocopied copies. You could easily make the case that downloading a video's basically the equivalent of making a photocopy, no? It feels like things can get pretty dicey for journalists here. And that doesn't seem great to me. Back to Top Andrew Ruck General User Member Since: 12/22/2004 Location: Columbus, OH Post Count: 5,181 Status: Offline     RE: Tim Burke's home office raided by the FBI    Posted: 4/22/2025 9:09:50 AM  Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote: Andrew Ruck wrote: This case is about using nefarious methods to obtain footage/information. Not sure how your point about edits relates. But every news outlet edits the crap out of all their interviews and messaging to fit their narrative and objective - There is no question about that. Sorry, I mixed up my Trump campaign threats against CBS. I had thought that the Kamala transcript was leaked by a CBS employee, but I was mixing it up with the story that came out on conservative media (then disappeared) about a whistleblower who was going to prove that CBS gave Kamala debate answers. But either way, I'm unconvinced that the government deciding that a journalist accessing information on a server with others' credentials should be illegal in a good thing. And if that's where this case ends up, there are some pretty scary implications for modern journalism. Generally, journalists have been provided protections when publishing illegally accessed materials -- provided they didn't play a direct role in acquiring those materials and the materials contain public concern. That's based on Bartnicki v. Vopper, where a citizen illegally recorded a union negotiation call and dropped the recording in a journalist's mailbox. In Burke's case, according to the co-defendent who pleaded guilty, Burke was sent these credentials by the dude who plead guilty. I think it's a pretty interesting question as to how you define a journalist's role, but it seems pretty arbitrary to me that the difference between legal and illegal in this case would be based on who actually took the action to login & download what they found. When the Pentagon Papers were leaked plenty of different journalists ended up with photocopied copies. You could easily make the case that downloading a video's basically the equivalent of making a photocopy, no? I don't agree at all. I think a better equivalency would be someone else obtaining a key to an office building and the journalist taking that key to enter and steal files. There's no reasonable way to defend that. Andrew Ruck B.B.A. 2003 Back to Top Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame General User Member Since: 7/30/2010 Post Count: 4,006 Status: Offline     RE: Tim Burke's home office raided by the FBI    Posted: 4/22/2025 2:09:18 PM  Andrew Ruck wrote: I don't agree at all. I think a better equivalency would be someone else obtaining a key to an office building and the journalist taking that key to enter and steal files. There's no reasonable way to defend that. Your interpretation's a lot stricter than the courts, for what it's worth. The Supreme Court's also ruled to reign in the CFAA a bit because there's concern that it's not nearly narrow enough. It was written before the internet, after all. But it should be an interesting case -- thus far courts have basically punted on how "unauthorized access" is defined. And that's before you even consider the First Amendment rights provided to Burke as a journalist. The content he accessed was on public URLs -- the URLs were designed to be hard to find, but in previous cases courts have ruled that those are "speed bumps" and the intent to hide them is not the same thing as making access unauthorized. Ultimately, it seems like Burke used a publicly published password to find access to a bunch of public URLs. He probably wouldn't have found those URLs without the password, but the URLs themselves weren't protected. Thinking about it more, I don't think your house metaphor or my photo copy analogy is right. It's more like Burke walked up to a building, looked under the doormat, saw a key and unlocked the door, only to find that the building was just a facade and there weren't any other walls. Back to Top Andrew Ruck General User Member Since: 12/22/2004 Location: Columbus, OH Post Count: 5,181 Status: Offline     RE: Tim Burke's home office raided by the FBI    Posted: 4/22/2025 4:12:07 PM  I'm cool with the key under the doormat analogy, except it was placed there by a guy he worked with to obtain it and placed it there for him. If I place a key under my doormat and get broken into, I might be an idiot for the egregious security failure but that doesn't mean anyone is free to walk into my house. I sure hope anyone that walks thru my door is prosecuted for breaking an entering. Andrew Ruck B.B.A. 2003 Back to Top Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame General User Member Since: 7/30/2010 Post Count: 4,006 Status: Offline     RE: Tim Burke's home office raided by the FBI    Posted: 4/22/2025 5:06:52 PM  Andrew Ruck wrote: I'm cool with the key under the doormat analogy, except it was placed there by a guy he worked with to obtain it and placed it there for him. If I place a key under my doormat and get broken into, I might be an idiot for the egregious security failure but that doesn't mean anyone is free to walk into my house. I sure hope anyone that walks thru my door is prosecuted for breaking an entering. A pretty key part of that analogy was that the doormat was in front of a building missing 3 walls. The security failure isn't where you put the key, it's that you live in a house with no walls. The question it raises legally is whether you can reasonably expect security in that scenario. Back to Top Andrew Ruck General User Member Since: 12/22/2004 Location: Columbus, OH Post Count: 5,181 Status: Offline     RE: Tim Burke's home office raided by the FBI    Posted: 4/22/2025 5:54:28 PM  Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote: Andrew Ruck wrote: I'm cool with the key under the doormat analogy, except it was placed there by a guy he worked with to obtain it and placed it there for him. If I place a key under my doormat and get broken into, I might be an idiot for the egregious security failure but that doesn't mean anyone is free to walk into my house. I sure hope anyone that walks thru my door is prosecuted for breaking an entering. A pretty key part of that analogy was that the doormat was in front of a building missing 3 walls. The security failure isn't where you put the key, it's that you live in a house with no walls. The question it raises legally is whether you can reasonably expect security in that scenario. Yes. Poor security is not a basis for legal defense for theft. Andrew Ruck B.B.A. 2003 Back to Top Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame General User Member Since: 7/30/2010 Post Count: 4,006 Status: Offline     RE: Tim Burke's home office raided by the FBI    Posted: 4/22/2025 6:20:56 PM  Andrew Ruck wrote: Yes. Poor security is not a basis for legal defense for theft. What was stolen? There are court cases that do not interpret what Burke did as theft. What was downloaded was on a public link that anybody with the URL could access; previous cases have ruled that simply creating a very complicated, complex link that's still publicly accessible is a "speed bump" (their word) and does not make the content any less public. And that downloading/viewing/sharing that content is not theft. So this is a really unique case where Burke accessed feeds that were set up in a way that other courts have ruled he has a right to because they were public and on the open web. But he seems to have found those feeds by logging into a site using credentials published somewhere on the web. Hence my analogy of unlocking the door of a house missing three walls. Had he walked around the back of the house, it's pretty clear how courts would rule as there's already case law. And that's what's super weird about this case -- if you put a password in front of a bunch of public URLs, are they less public? Back to Top BillyTheCat General User Member Since: 10/6/2012 Post Count: 10,332 Status: Offline     RE: Tim Burke's home office raided by the FBI    Posted: 4/22/2025 10:21:41 PM  Hopefully, we still have a thing in this country call due process. Tim has never been a fan of mine when he was active on this board. I have always respected him, like I do many of you in your field of knowledge. But as of 4/22/2025, Tim Burke is an innocent man who was doing a job, until the process says otherwise, he’s still an innocent man. Some of you all trying the case and you only know the published side of the story. Back to Top Andrew Ruck General User Member Since: 12/22/2004 Location: Columbus, OH Post Count: 5,181 Status: Offline     RE: Tim Burke's home office raided by the FBI    Posted: 4/23/2025 8:34:18 AM  Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote: Andrew Ruck wrote: Yes. Poor security is not a basis for legal defense for theft. What was stolen? There are court cases that do not interpret what Burke did as theft. What was downloaded was on a public link that anybody with the URL could access; previous cases have ruled that simply creating a very complicated, complex link that's still publicly accessible is a "speed bump" (their word) and does not make the content any less public. And that downloading/viewing/sharing that content is not theft. So this is a really unique case where Burke accessed feeds that were set up in a way that other courts have ruled he has a right to because they were public and on the open web. But he seems to have found those feeds by logging into a site using credentials published somewhere on the web. Hence my analogy of unlocking the door of a house missing three walls. Had he walked around the back of the house, it's pretty clear how courts would rule as there's already case law. And that's what's super weird about this case -- if you put a password in front of a bunch of public URLs, are they less public? You're acting like he typed in a random URL for funsies and it popped up some interesting info. If he obtained login data with the intent to secure information, that's really all there is to it. I don't care about your empty walls analogy, and at this point we are so deep in this analogy the picture I have of this hypothetical building we've created is like something out of a Christopher Nolan film. BillyTheCat wrote: Hopefully, we still have a thing in this country call due process. Tim has never been a fan of mine when he was active on this board. I have always respected him, like I do many of you in your field of knowledge. But as of 4/22/2025, Tim Burke is an innocent man who was doing a job, until the process says otherwise, he’s still an innocent man. Some of you all trying the case and you only know the published side of the story. That is really rich after you immediately declared him innocent while I was the one saying maybe we should wait and hear more details before we dismiss it as 1st amendment infringement. We are debating on the details of what has been alleged, nothing wrong with that Andrew Ruck B.B.A. 2003 Back to Top Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame General User Member Since: 7/30/2010 Post Count: 4,006 Status: Offline     RE: Tim Burke's home office raided by the FBI    Posted: 4/23/2025 10:25:53 AM  Andrew Ruck wrote: You're acting like he typed in a random URL for funsies and it popped up some interesting info. Nah, I'm reading case law about people who have done some of the exact things Tim Burke claims to have done and gone to trial for it. In none of those cases did people "type in random URLS for funsies" -- some even wrote scripts to test millions of URL iterations specifically to access information that was hidden and courts still ruled in their favor because the information was on a public URL. The courts ruled that way because it's an extremely slippery slope to make it illegal for people to access information that was not properly secured strictly because a company/individual/institution didn't want them to have it. Andrew Ruck wrote: If he obtained login data with the intent to secure information, that's really all there is to it. We shall see. Think the case law on this and prior interpretations make it pretty clear that it's not nearly as cut and dry as you seem to think it is. Last Edited: 4/23/2025 10:28:34 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame Back to Top Kevin Finnegan General User Member Since: 2/4/2005 Location: Rockton, IL Post Count: 1,158 Status: Offline     RE: Tim Burke's home office raided by the FBI    Posted: 4/25/2025 3:02:28 PM  Don't know enough to have an opinion on this, but I appreciate the dialogue between the two of you. It really gives a better context to the case. Also refreshing to read two diverse opinions on a message board without any level of bashing or belittling. Keep it coming, I'm enjoying it. Back to Top Showing Replies:   26 - 46  of 46 Posts Jump to Page:   < Previous    1 | 2 View Other 'General Ohio University Discussion/Alumni Events' Topics                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               WHO'S ONLINE There are 189 Active Visitors on BobcatAttack.com 189 Guests 0 Registered Users There are no other users looking at this page.

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